gnome@oliven.UUCP (Gary) (09/12/86)
-- Why? To intimidate. It's a form of extortion... > God > is definitely a powerful and just God, and I think it is important to recognize > that fact. ^^^^ > The Bible is instruction for man. -- So is the Book of Ubizmo. > There are many things to learn that are difficult, painful, and often downright > scary. Being a Christian doesn't change that. But being a Christian > guarantees that we will not suffer eternally. ^^^^^^^^^^ Actually, the Bible _promises_ that. There are no guarantees. Of course I'm sure you could argue that, but it would mean using logic and philosophical thinking and as we all know, both are tools of the Devil... What is implies, however, is that if you aren't Christian, you may end up burning in Hell forever (or is that "tied to a rock" forever?). > The same book, Revelations, that scares the > "7 year olds" also provides a beautiful description of what heaven ... -- More typed-in Bibletext -- > > I do not look forward to > the prospect of dying, but I do look forward to death itself. It will be a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > glorious release. It will be the fulfillment of everything I have ever longed > for. The Scriptures says, 'In Thy presence is fullness of joy. At Thy right > hand there are pleasures evermore' (Ps. 16:11)." Heaven/Hell definitions aside, the concept that there are a large group of people that /look forward/ to death, Armageddon, etc is very important. I would hate to think that it could become a self-fulfilling prophesy. Imagine that point of view being taken by - - High ranking military leaders. - Industrialists (why not cut down the forests, or dump in the ocean? After all, the whole thing will come to an end soon and God will destroy the "bad guys" and we'll live in Heaven (or heaven on earth) forever, Amen.) - People in charge of environmental controls. See above. - People in charge of energy systems. (Nuclear waste, acid rain? No problem! We won't be around when it could get to be a problem...) Also, the idea of "joy", the fulfillment of "everything I have ever longed for", only is true if your longings are for a beatifically-mindless and lobotomized paradise. Yes, the Bibble does describe someone's idea of heaven (not mine). Wait! Don't say it! I heard this from a bunch of BACs (Born-Again-Christians) outside of a talk given by a local witch. After unsuccessfully trying to disrupt her talk, and causing the local police to waste tons of money, a bunch of them were relaxing at an ice cream stand when I heard the following sentiment - Fundie 1 - "Well, it doesn't matter. She's already dead!" ...giggle... snicker... Fundie 2 & 3 - "I hear ya, brother. Amen!" ...snicker... -- I guess it makes their little minds feel more important... So, with that in mind, it isn't worth everyone's time typing-in and reading all of The Bible's Greatist Hits. In the long run, it ends up coming down to a conceited form of elitism - black&white logic for binary minds... Gary "I see your lips quiver with antici... ...pation!" HHHHHHHASA Max Headroom's favorite box!
cc100jr@gitpyr.UUCP (Joel Rives) (09/14/86)
In article <288@isieng.UUCP> kiki@isieng.UUCP (Kiki Herbst) writes: > >There are a lot of books in the new testament that make me feel "warm and good" >and others that scare me because they show the power or the "fear" of God. God >is definitely a powerful and just God, and I think it is important to recognize >that fact. The Bible is instruction for man.... Kiki, I would be the last person to deny you your right to tell your fellow netters about your personal beliefs. Insisting that others accept your beliefs as fact is another matter all together. Why should I recognize that - in you own words - " God is definately a powerful and just God,..."? The bible may be instruction for you. It may, in fact, be instruction for a large number of people - I don't know. That, in no way, assures that it exists as instruction for all of mankind. However, to be fair, I must admit, I have read various versions of the Christian bible and found some sound advice in it. The Golden Rule is one such piece of advice that I feel very strongly about. I was first introduced to this concept through my Christian upbringing. I have since discovered that this concept is not unique to the Christian faith. It crops up along many different paths. > > Billy Graham in a recent book wrote: "The torturing, >tormenting fear of death is a condition that is perfectly normal for anyone who >has never come to Christ. Death is an experience from which people >instinctively shrink. Yet for the Christina the fear is removed. He has the >assurance that the sins for which he would be judged have been dealt with, >whereas the non-Christian has no such assurance. I do not look forward to >the prospect of dying, but I do look forward to death itself. It will be a >glorious release. It will be the fulfillment of everything I have ever longed >for. The Scriptures says, 'In Thy presence is fullness of joy. At Thy right >hand there are pleasures evermore' (Ps. 16:11)." Obviously, Billy Graham knows not of what he speaks. The millions (perhaps billions) of Buddhists in the world share just as great an opportunity to face eventual physical degeneration and death without fear. In fact, many Christians that I know harbour an inordinant amount of fear of death. This is largely due to the fact that they view this life on earth as a one-shot chance to make into heaven. Not only that, according to the Christian concept, an individual starts out with a stain on his or her respective score card - so to speak. -- Joel Rives USENET: gatech!gitpyr!cc100jr BITNET: gatech!gitvm1!cc100jr "Remember, no matter where you go, there you are!" << Buckaroo Banzai >>
kiki@isieng.UUCP (Kiki Herbst) (09/17/86)
In article <2251@gitpyr.UUCP> cc100jr@gitpyr.UUCP (Joel Rives) writes: > >In article <288@isieng.UUCP> kiki@isieng.UUCP (Kiki Herbst) writes: >>God is definitely a powerful and just God, and I think it is important to recognize that fact. The Bible is instruction for man.... > >Kiki, I would be the last person to deny you your right to tell your fellow >netters about your personal beliefs. Insisting that others accept your beliefs >as fact is another matter all together. Why should I recognize that - in you >own words - " God is definately a powerful and just God,..."? The bible may >be instruction for you. It may, in fact, be instruction for a large number of >people - I don't know. That, in no way, assures that it exists as instruction >for all of mankind. However, to be fair, I must admit, I have read various >versions of the Christian bible and found some sound advice in it. The Golden >Rule is one such piece of advice that I feel very strongly about. I was first >introduced to this concept through my Christian upbringing. I have since >discovered that this concept is not unique to the Christian faith. It crops >up along many different paths. That is true that several faiths share the golden rule. The difference with Christianity is Christ. A lot of religions are "do-it-yourself" propositions. Follow this way of life, do this, do that, and you will gain pleasure from God. But in Christianity, Jesus offers the power to live as we should. He gives us forgiveness, cleansing, and His own righteousness, all as a free gift. Paul Little writes "D.T. Niles has observed that in other religions good works are an "in order to". In Christianity, they are a "therefore." In other religions, good works are the means by which one hopes to earn salvation. In Christianity salvation is received as a free gift, through the finished work of Christ, the "therefore" of good works becomes an imperative love of God. Or, as another has put it, other religions are "do"; Christianity is done". Christianity is what God has done for man in seeking Him and reaching down to help him. Other religions are a matter of man seeking and struggling toward God. > The millions (perhaps >billions) of Buddhists in the world share just as great an opportunity to >face eventual physical degeneration and death without fear. In fact, many >Christians that I know harbour an inordinant amount of fear of death. This >is largely due to the fact that they view this life on earth as a one-shot >chance to make into heaven. Not only that, according to the Christian >concept, an individual starts out with a stain on his or her respective >score card - so to speak. In Buddhism, the ultimate goal is nirvana or the extinction of desire. According to Buddha's teachings, all pain and suffering come from *desire*. If this desire can be overcome by following the Eightfold Path to Enlightenment, one can achieve nirvana, which is total nothingness. Buddha never claimed to beGod or teach about life after death. Maybe Buddhists "die without fear", but my orginal point about death was not in the *act* of dieing, it is that we don'tfear death, because after the *act* of death, we will live for eternity. Paul Little goes on to say, "Of the great religious leaders of the world, Christ alone claims deity. It really doesn't matter what one thinks of Muhammed, Buddha, or Confucious as individuals. Their followers emphasize their *teachings*. Not so with Christ. He made *himself* the focal point of his teachings. The central question He put to His listeners was, "Whom do you say that I am? When asked what doing the works of God involved, Jesus replied, 'This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent (John 6:29). "On the question of who and what God is, the nature of salvation and how it is obtained, it is clear that Christianity differs radically from other world religions. We live in an age in which tolerance is a key word. Tolerance, however, must be clearly understood. (Truth, by its very nature, is intolerant of error.) If two plus two is four, the total cannot at the same time be 23. But one is not regarded as intolerant because he disagrees with this answer and maintains that the only correct answer is four. The same principle applies in religious matters. One must be tolerant of other points of view and respect their right to be held and heard. He cannot, however, be forced in the name of tolerance to agree that all points of view, including those that are mutually contradictory, are equally valid. Such a position is nonsense. "It is not true that 'it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you believe it.' Hitler's slaughter of five million Jews was based on a sincere view of race supremacy, but he was desparately wrong. What we believe must be true in order to be real. Jesus said 'I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father but by Me" (John 14:6). There are many ways to Christ, but if we are to know the true and living God in personal experience, it must be through Christ, the only Way to God." Kiki