daveh@tekcrl.UUCP (Dave Hatcher) (09/26/86)
Subject: Faith, Works, and the Nature of Christianity I am reposting quite a bit of this article because it is such a marvelous example for the story that follows. ............................................................................. Mike Huybensz writes: [Joel Rives voiced similar comments] >> Well, that simply isn't true. In the Letter of James it says right out >> that the works are the evidence of faith. The faith is the source for the >> morality. If you throw away the fiath and just keep the morality you have >> something entirely different. > [W]hat are my works, if I am not a believer? How can they be evidence >of faith? This contradicts the Letter of James. They are your works. Jesus comments on morality saying that merely being moral is insufficient-- "even the heathen do as much." James says that "faith without works is dead." The point is that insofar as they are separate things, insofar as one exists without the other, then the person or attitude is not christian. >Third, once again you are trying to explain morality with theology: I see >no reason to nail the two together other than Christian vested interests in >the historical status quo. Well, the morality isn't particularly christian except insofar as it arises from the christian religion. There is certainly much more to christian writings than just morality, and others have from time to time come up with quite similar systems without the benefit of the church. If you want to be precise, you could refer to the moral system as that system "advocated by the church and by christian writings", but seeing as how (for instance) there are jewish writings in substantial agreement, I don't see how the argument that the morality is central can stand. ................................................................................ Before the story...A guestion comes to mind; Has the Christian faith turned God and the worship of God into *FORM* worship? A certain Jewish king used to persecute the Christians, desiring to exterminate their faith. His Vizar persuaded him to try a stratagem, namely, to mutilate the Vizar himself, and to expel him from his court, with intent that he might take refuge with the Christians, and stir up mutual dissensions amoungst them. The Vizars suggestion was adopted. He fled to the Christians, and found no difficulty in persuading them that he had been treated in that barbarous way on account of his attachment to the Christian faith. He soon gained complete influence over them, and accepted as a saintly martyr and divine teacher. Only a few discerning men divined his treachery; the majority were deluded by him. The Christians were divided into twelve legions, and at the head of each was a captain. To each of these captains the Vazir gave secretly a volume of religious directions, taking care to make the directions of each volume different from and contradictory to those in the others. One volume enjoined fasting another charity, another faith, another works, and so on. Afterwards the Vazir withdrew into a cave, and refused to come out to instruct his disciples, in spite of all their entreaties. Calling the captains to him he secret instructions to each to set himself up as his successor, and to be guided by the instructions in the volume secretly confided to him, and to slay all other claimants of the apostolic office. Having given these directions, he slew himself. In the event, each captain set himself up as the Vizir's successor, and the Christians were split up into many sects at enmity with one another, even as the Vizar intended. But the malicious scheme did not altogether succeed, as one faithful band cleaved to the name of "Ahmad" mentioned in the Gospel,(look at John 14:26) and were thus saved from sharing the ruin of the rest. Jalaluddin Rumi Dave Hatcher