dwight@nrcvax.UUCP (Dwight Kirby) (10/07/86)
Article 155 of talk.religion:
Path: nrcvax!dwight
From: dwight@nrcvax.UUCP (Dwight Kirby)
Newsgroups: talk.religion
Subject: Salvation Questions
Message-ID: <726@nrcvax.UUCP>
Date: 6 Oct 86 14:25:03 GMT
Reply-To: dwight@nrcvax.UUCP (Dwight Kirby)
Organization: Network Research Corp. Oxnard, CA
Lines: 116
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Salvation Questions
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Organization: Network Research Corp. Oxnard, CA
Keywords:Heaven, Hell Or....
After the body of Jesus had lain in the tomb for three days, the spirit
again entered his body. The angels rolled the stone away from the mouth
of the sepulcher, and the resurrected Redeemer of the world walked forth,
clothed with an immortal body of flesh and bones.
Mary Magdalene, who seemed to have some special interest in the Savior,
came early to the tomb, and weeping, discovered that the body of the Master
was not there. A voice spake to her, saying, "Mary. She turned herself,
and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yer ascended to my Father:
but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your
Father; and to my God, and your God" (John 20:16-17).
Here Jeses has declard that during the three days immediately subsequent to
his crucifixion, while his body lay in the tomb, his spirit did not go into
heaven or to the presence of his Father. Logically, it must follow that
neither did the Thief's spirit. The fenerally accepted idea, therefore,
of the thief being saved must inevitably fall. Jesus asserted that "to day
shalt thou be with me in paradise," and upon his return to earth he informed
Mary that he had not ascended to his Father.
The question naturally arises: Where had he been during these three days? We
are not left in doubt upon this point; scripture plainly points out the
character of the duties he was called upon to perform while his body rested in
peace in the newly made tomb of Joseph.
Jesus had transferred the keys of the kingdom of heaven to Peter, who also
stood at the head of the Twelve Apostles. He would certainly be accepted as
a competent witness in this matter. By turning to Peter's epistles we gain
this information:
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that
he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but quickened by
the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison"
(1 Peter 3:20).
Here we have an account of what Christ was doing during the three days'
absence from the body: preaching in the spirit world. We also have a clear
explanation as to where the thief went. It was to a spirit prison where he
would have an opportunity to hear the gospel of deliverence preached to the
captive spirits, "which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering
of God waited in the days of Noah" (1 Peter 3:20).
We now understand what Isaiah, the prophet, meant when, speaking of Jesus, he
says, "That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth" (Isaiah 49:9).
And again: "He hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty
to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound"
(Isaiah 61:1).
And again: "To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison,
and them that sit in darkness our to the prison house" (Isaiah 42:7)
How appropriately do these passages coincide with and support the assertion of
Peter relative to Jesus preaching in the spirit world. These were men who in
the days of the flood failed to abey the commandments of God and for two
thousand years had suffered the penalty of their wrongdoing and who had been
fulfilling the principle so clearly enunciated by our Savior when he said,
"Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou
hast paid the uttermost farthing" (Matthew 5:26).
"And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself,
neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But
he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten
with few stripes" (Luke 12:47-48).
These long-suffering spirits, who had been held in confinement, must have
received with great joy the everlasting gospel. Through the gospel the
prison doors could be opened and the obedient spirits could be delivered
from the grasp of Lucifer, the son of the morning, who is appropriately
described as one who "made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
"That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof;
that opened not the house of his prisoners" (Isaiah 14:16-17).
The Creator has ordained a grand and glorious plan of salvation for his
children, a plan that reaches from eternity to eternity and covers every
emergency. It guides and directs their footsteps while upon the earth and
extends beyond the grave into the spirit world. In this latter state, their
hearts rejoice and gladden under the Savior's benign influence. They grow and
increase in might and majesty, power and glory, as the ages roll by, until
the inspired words of our divine Master be fulfilled: "Every knee shall bow...
,and every tongue confess" (Romans 14:11).
Well might Jesus say to the Apostles just previous to his death: "Verily,
verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall
hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live...Marvel not
at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves
shall hear his voice" (John 5:25,28).
Turning again to the epistle of Peter, we find this assertion"[You] shall
give account to him that is ready to jedge the quick and the dead. For for
this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they
might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God
in the spirit" (1 Peter 4:5-6).
--
Dwight Kirby
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ucbvax!calma!nrcvax!dwight
ihnp4!nrcvax!dwight
--
Dwight Kirby
{sdcsvax,hplabs}!sdcrdcf!psivax!nrcvax!dwight
ucbvax!calma!nrcvax!dwight
ihnp4!nrcvax!dwightdevonst@burdvax.UUCP (Tom Albrecht) (10/14/86)
dwight@nrcvax.UUCP (Dwight Kirby) writes: > >After the body of Jesus had lain in the tomb for three days, the spirit >again entered his body. The angels rolled the stone away from the mouth >of the sepulcher, and the resurrected Redeemer of the world walked forth, >clothed with an immortal body of flesh and bones. > >Mary Magdalene, who seemed to have some special interest in the Savior, >came early to the tomb, and weeping, discovered that the body of the Master >was not there. A voice spake to her, saying, "Mary. She turned herself, >and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. > >"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yer ascended to my Father: >but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your >Father; and to my God, and your God" (John 20:16-17). > >Here Jeses has declard that during the three days immediately subsequent to >his crucifixion, while his body lay in the tomb, his spirit did not go into >heaven or to the presence of his Father. Logically, it must follow that >neither did the Thief's spirit. The fenerally accepted idea, therefore, >of the thief being saved must inevitably fall. Jesus asserted that "to day >shalt thou be with me in paradise," and upon his return to earth he informed >Mary that he had not ascended to his Father. ... > >-- > > Dwight Kirby This is, I believe, a rather novel interpretation of the John passage. You seem to take the notion of ascension in a spiritual sense. Now if this is to be the case you should be able to find some other evidence in scripture that Jesus was talking about a spiritual ascension rather than a physical one. I think the proper understanding of John 20 is that He had not ascended bodily (which He would do at after 40 days). The OT and NT imagery of Paradise is virtually synonymous with Heaven. To say that Paradise is some place other than Heaven, therefore, is to presume something not clearly taught in scripture. -- Tom Albrecht "Reformata, semper reformanda"