ptl@fluke.UUCP (10/14/86)
Hi, Following is a discussion of abortion from my perspective as a Christian. I don't pretend to speak for all Christians, and I hope Oleg Kiselev doesn't believe he speaks for all non-Christians. [refering to my statement that `Faith in God requires facing this serious moral question, anywhere'] In article <2061@curly.ucla-cs.ARPA> oleg@OACVAX.BITNET (Oleg "Kill the bastards" Kiselev) writes: >... Well, THAT is a proper thing to discuss in this news group. I do not >accept the existance of your God and therefore do not concern myself >with having to do something because of "faith". >... You want to keep the "removed" fetuses alive? Be my guest! ... As you say, they are very much alive, before their lives are taken. Lives God created thru the participation of two people. The existance of the child is not just the woman's responsibility, nor is the child's care. The man has emotional and financial responsibilities, too. >... Or do you want to see statistics on the number of babies that grow up >NORMAL (i.e. not severely physically and brain damaged), or even SURVIVED >these very premature births. Maybe you could look at the statics and tell me. Also look at how many babies went on to live normal, productive, and happy lives. >... Or do you need me to tell you that it COSTS LOTS OF MONEY to provide >the care for premature babies, money most people do not have??? You've answered one of my concerns very clearly here. There are groups, even churches, who will help clothe and feed entire families if they can't handle it on their own; helping them get on with their lives. >Or do you need me to tell you that if YOU want not to have an abortion NOBODY >will force you to have one??? I'm forced to pay for them thru my taxes, and the tax support or government support some abortions get. [I stated] >>When a parent becomes too old to care for him/her self - you then >>believe they too are an unwanted burden which makes it acceptable >>for them to be killed. Simply because they would depend on you? [Oleg responds] >...You are either an idiot or you are VERY naive. There are plenty of examples >of old people being killed by neglect and abuse in retirement houses. Their >children and relatives get rid of them and forget them completely. So much >for old people analogy. Think again. >... If THEY do not want the baby -- WHAT RIGHT IS IT >OF YOURS TO TELL THEM WHAT TO DO?! It is not YOUR PLACE TO MAKE DEMANDS! Why should I have to pay for them. Who is making demands? >... You presume to speak for all Xtians. Yet there are plenty >of Xtians who do not extend this alleged sanctity of life upon a fetus! I am expressing my own beliefs regarding the sanctity of life. I do wish more Christians shared them, too. [regarding where I fear abortion could lead, I state] >>Then go another step and put in the >>words long term sickness, quadraplegic, ... - another possible direction >>things can go. [Oleg responds] >...Do not attempt to cloud the issue! A local court case of a quadruplegic >woman, who practically lived on pain killers and just wanted to have the >doctors let her die, is still too fresh in my memory. >...Oleg Kiselev, HASA "A" division I know two quadraplegics, one personally, who want very much too live. What happens when too-much-money, over-dependence, etc. make their way into laws which say they too are just a burden and drain on society, which we can choose to eliminate, or refuse to give them the medical and emotional needs they have. This is not an easy, cut and dried issue. But death for a living being is very final. God Bless, Mike Andrews
marco@andromeda.UUCP (the wharf rat) (10/16/86)
In article <702@cal-asd.fluke.UUCP>, ptl@fluke.UUCP writes: > A: > As you say, they are very much alive, before their lives are taken. > Lives God created thru the participation of two people. The existance > of the child B: > > >Or do you need me to tell you that if YOU want not to have an abortion NOBODY > >will force you to have one??? > > I'm forced to pay for them thru my taxes, and the tax support or government > support some abortions get. > Why should I have to pay for them. Who is making demands? A. It's not a child. It's a L.B.P.D.C. B. I pay for your church; the taxes your church doesn't pay are simply taxes *I* must pay. When some nut paints a swastika on your walls, who pays for the police investigation ? Not the church. In this society, we should _all_ pay for _each_ _other_. From each according to his ability, and to each according to his need, but this doesn't include little blobs of partially differentiated cells, because L.B.P.D.C. 's aren't "each others", they're not "little peoples", and they're *not* babies, they're pre-babies, or maybe proto-babies, but *not* children. W.rat $rm baby rm: baby nonexistent