devonst@burdvax.UUCP (Tom Albrecht) (09/25/86)
References: A couple of items showed up in today's (9/25/86) Philadelphia Inquirer. WEST BERLIN - Three East Germans swan across the Teltow canal, part of the border between East and West Berlin, bringing to ten the number of people who have fled communist East Germany in the last five weeks. MIAMI - Two Cuban citizens and a Nicaraguan asked for political asylum in the US after the flight they were on made an emergency stop in Miami. The Nicaraguan, Manuel De Jesus Prado-Ortega, is reported to be the son of a Sandinista official. Long live the Great Socialist Experiment! -- Tom Albrecht
bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) (10/01/86)
> WEST BERLIN - Three East Germans swan across the Teltow canal, part of >the border between East and West Berlin, bringing to ten the number of people >who have fled communist East Germany in the last five weeks. > > MIAMI - Two Cuban citizens and a Nicaraguan asked for political >asylum in the US after the flight they were on made an emergency stop in >Miami. The Nicaraguan, Manuel De Jesus Prado-Ortega, is reported to be the >son of a Sandinista official. > >Long live the Great Socialist Experiment! > >Tom Albrecht Gee, that's twelve people out of probably 1.5 billion (I dunno, China alone is 1B, USSR I assume .3B, SE Asia etc.) Who's side are you arguing? -Barry Shein, Boston University
dand@tekigm.UUCP (10/02/86)
In article <1601@bu-cs.bu-cs.BU.EDU>, bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) writes: > > > WEST BERLIN - Three East Germans swan across the Teltow canal, part of > > ... > > MIAMI - Two Cuban citizens and a Nicaraguan asked for political > > ... > >Long live the Great Socialist Experiment! > > > >Tom Albrecht > > Gee, that's twelve people out of probably 1.5 billion (I dunno, China > alone is 1B, USSR I assume .3B, SE Asia etc.) > > Who's side are you arguing? > > -Barry Shein, Boston University Actually, with 1.5 billion people trying to keep them in, I'm surprised that as many as 12 have gotten away. Seems kinds of interesting that the East Germans couldn't just cross at a border station, and that the Cubans and Nicaraguan got away only because a fluke technical problem landed them somewhere where they could walk away. I understand that most Americans enter East Germany at a border crossing; why do you suppose East Germans can't enter the west the same way? I'm not arguing for or against socialism. If the USSR, et al, are examples of anything, they appear to be better examples of the failure of coercion than of anything else. Dan C Duval ISI Engineering Tektronix, Inc. tektronix!tekigm!dand
janw@inmet.UUCP (10/04/86)
[bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU ] >>[Tom Albrecht tells a few stories of daring escapes from >>Communist countries. He ends: ] >>Long live the Great Socialist Experiment! >Gee, that's twelve people out of probably 1.5 billion (I dunno, China >alone is 1B, USSR I assume .3B, SE Asia etc.) >Who's [sic] side are you arguing? Barry: please think before posting. Can't you see the silliness of what you just said? Substitute (as a thought experiment) Buchenwald, or Simon Legree's plantation on the Red River, for the countries you name. If someone told you what risks some peo- ple took to get out of there, would your answer be the same? Most of the escapees get killed, didn't you know?
tan@ihlpg.UUCP (Bill Tanenbaum) (10/08/86)
> I'm not arguing for or against socialism. If the USSR, et al, are examples > of anything, they appear to be better examples of the failure of coercion > than of anything else. > Dan C Duval ---------- Unfortunately, the USSR is an example of the SUCCESS of coercion. It is very good at it. The world's largest prison has a negligible escape rate, and earns political capital and other concessions by ransoming its prisoners, very very slowly. -- Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL ihnp4!ihlpg!tan
devonst@burdvax.UUCP (Tom Albrecht) (10/10/86)
tan@ihlpg.UUCP (Bill Tanenbaum) writes: >> I'm not arguing for or against socialism. If the USSR, et al, are examples >> of anything, they appear to be better examples of the failure of coercion >> than of anything else. >> Dan C Duval >---------- >Unfortunately, the USSR is an example of the SUCCESS of coercion. It is >very good at it. The world's largest prison has a negligible escape >rate, and earns political capital and other concessions by ransoming >its prisoners, very very slowly. >-- >Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL ihnp4!ihlpg!tan Notice how Cuba has caught on to the Soviet system that Bill described. They make much of their release of so-called political prisoners that play up really well in the US press. They also have learned to make use of left-leaning Americans like Jesse Jackson and others to spread their propoganda. Jesse goes to Havana and embraces Castro at the airport as a great humanitarian. Still, liberal's eyes glaze over when you talk about communist countries and their human-rights policies choosing instead to focus their attention on American allies. -- Tom Albrecht
tan@ihlpg.UUCP (Bill Tanenbaum) (10/12/86)
< <[Me] < <Unfortunately, the USSR is an example of the SUCCESS of coercion. It is < <very good at it. The world's largest prison has a negligible escape < <rate, and earns political capital and other concessions by ransoming < <its prisoners, very very slowly. ------ < [Tom Albrecht] < Notice how Cuba has caught on to the Soviet system that Bill described. < They make much of their release of so-called political prisoners that play < up really well in the US press. They also have learned to make use of < left-leaning Americans like Jesse Jackson and others to spread their < propoganda. Jesse goes to Havana and embraces Castro at the airport as a < great humanitarian. Still, liberal's eyes glaze over when you talk about < communist countries and their human-rights policies choosing instead to < focus their attention on American allies. ------ Tom is right on target about Castro and Cuba, but dead wrong about "liberals" and the U. S. press. Castro came off [deservedly] rotten in the U.S. press. What I read and saw was Cubans imprisoned for twenty years or more on political grounds being tearfully reunited with relatives, and describing the horrors and degredations they endured. Likewise, the Soviets win no friends in the U.S. by ransoming prisoners. On the contrary, it only publicizes the repression. The Soviets are more interested in concrete concessions, such as trade concessions, or the release of spies. -- Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL ihnp4!ihlpg!tan