@RUTGERS.ARPA:GOOD@ACC (04/23/85)
From: Greg Goodknight <GOOD@ACC> I enjoyed WIZARDS. Bakshi is a good storyteller, and I remember being thoroughly entertained. The animation was, of course, not up to what Disney or even Warner Bros. used to crank out, but at the time of release Bakshi was probably doing the best animation (measured in quality/kilobucks/minute) of anyone in the business. HOWEVER, NECRON-90 (PEACE) was a fairly blatant ripoff of a character created by the late Vaughn Bode. Bode was probably best known for a delightfully disgusting creature named "Cheech Wizard" that was published regularly in the early '70s in the National Lampoon, until Bode's unfortunate demise. Bode's best work was being published in the underground comix of that time. His most haunting character, Cobalt-60 (sound familiar already ?), was a mutant humanoid who spent most of his time hunting down and killing non-mutant humanoids, in an attempt to establish his own kind as "normal" and to punish the humans for creating a radioactive wasteland. Bakshi's NECRON-90 was almost identical in form to Cobalt-60, right down to the beast they rode into battle. The only difference to me was that NECRON-90 decided to stop and smell the roses, and Cobalt-60 would have blasted them with never a second thought. It was plagarism all right, but Vaughn Bode was already dead, and I suppose his heirs just didn't want to fight it (I never was aware of any legal action). Stealing ideas from dead artists seems ghoulish to me, and my personal respect for Bakshi dropped quite a bit. (Insert here the usual disclaimer about sketchy memories of things and people in past decades.) Greg Goodknight <good@ACC.ARPA> Hardware Bozo "I think we're all Bozos on this bus" ------
chabot@miles.DEC (Bits is Bits) (04/23/85)
I agree with Mark Leeper: I didn't like WIZARDS either. During the film, the corners of my mouth started sinking, as did my stomach; scantily clad females don't do a thing for me; all that footage that I thought was interesting in Lord of the Rings I saw had been used before in WIZARDS; bad guys are Nazis-- I agree, Nazis're bad, but this just felt like a crutch because Bakshi couldn't make up his own bad guys. And then the easy-out, absolutely-wrong ending. The worst part of it was, that so many of my friends thought this was a movie to end all movies, and I thought (and still think) it was male-juvenile humor at its trashiest (come on--what girl wants to see a movie in which there is only one female character (-: okay, and no totally gnarly dudes :-) ). Well, that's just my opinion. "Only the mockingbird sings at the edge of the woods." L S Chabot ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot chabot%amber.DEC@decwrl.ARPA DEC, LMO4/H4, 150 Locke Drive, Marlborough, MA 01752
gnome@olivee.UUCP (Gary Traveis) (04/24/85)
> From: Greg Goodknight <GOOD@ACC> > > > I enjoyed WIZARDS. Bakshi is a good storyteller, and I remember being > thoroughly entertained. The animation was, of course, not up to what > Disney or even Warner Bros. used to crank out, but at the time of release > Bakshi was probably doing the best animation (measured in > quality/kilobucks/minute) of anyone in the business. > > HOWEVER, NECRON-90 (PEACE) was a fairly blatant ripoff of a character > created by the late Vaughn Bode. Bode was probably best known > for a delightfully disgusting creature named "Cheech Wizard" that was > published regularly in the early '70s in the National Lampoon, until > Bode's unfortunate demise. >... > It was plagarism all right, but Vaughn Bode was already dead, and I > suppose his heirs just didn't want to fight it (I never was aware of > any legal action). Stealing ideas from dead artists seems ghoulish to > me, and my personal respect for Bakshi dropped quite a bit. > (Insert here the usual disclaimer about sketchy memories of things > and people in past decades.) > > Greg Goodknight <good@ACC.ARPA> > Hardware Bozo > > "I think we're all Bozos on this bus" > ------ Yes, I loved that movie as well. And yes, it was a direct ripoff of Vaughn's. Not that they (Barbara, Vaughn's wife, and Mark, their son...) don't need the money, but according to Mark, it mainly get's annoying after hearing the 40th person at a SF/comic convention say "Oh, yeah! Those are characters from wizards!!". Since Mark's a friend of mine, I thought I'd say that his work is being published in EPIC magazine (at this very moment, I think). Gary
chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) (04/24/85)
In article <1728@topaz.ARPA> @RUTGERS.ARPA:GOOD@ACC writes: > >HOWEVER, NECRON-90 (PEACE) was a fairly blatant ripoff of a character >created by the late Vaughn Bode. > >His most haunting character, Cobalt-60 (sound familiar >already ?), was a mutant humanoid who spent most of his time hunting >down and killing non-mutant humanoids, in an attempt to establish his >own kind as "normal" and to punish the humans for creating a radioactive >wasteland. Bakshi's NECRON-90 was almost identical in form to Cobalt-60, >right down to the beast they rode into battle. The only difference to me >was that NECRON-90 decided to stop and smell the roses, and Cobalt-60 >would have blasted them with never a second thought. > >It was plagarism all right, but Vaughn Bode was already dead, and I >suppose his heirs just didn't want to fight it I talked to Mark Bode at a con a while back, and blatant ripoff isn't the word. As a matter of fact, Bakshi borrowed some drafts from Vaughn Bode of the Cobalt-60 character and then proceeded to add them to his movie. That isn't plagarism, that's theft. Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of clearcut law about it, and it looks like Bakshi is going to be away with it. For those that are interested, Epic magazine has been carrying Mark Bode's version of Cobalt-60 as a continuation of the work started by his father. Mark (being assisted by Larry Todd, I believe) is doing a good job, but he isn't his father, and it shows. Vaughn didn't get very far on Cobalt-60 while he was alive because he found it just too depressing. Reading Mark's work, based on what his father did do, notes, and his own ideas, shows why. chuq -- :From the closet of anxieties of: Chuq Von Rospach {cbosgd,fortune,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!chuqui nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA Remember me, for that which I must do shall ring out upon the heavens and my name shall be renounced by the tongues of all mankind! - J. Iscariot
@RUTGERS.ARPA:Joseph.Henr@Xerox.ARPA (04/25/85)
From: Brenda <Joseph.Henr@Xerox.ARPA> << come on--what girl wants to see a movie in which there is only one female character>> I don't know, but this woman, for one, still considers WIZARDS one of her all time favorite movies. I never even noticed that there was only one female character, scantily clad or not, until you just mentioned it. The male/female character ratio is not something that's of upmost important when I'm watching a movie, but there relationships, chracters, etc. And I thought she was a pretty good character.(My best friend (an active, ardent feminist) considers WIZARDS one of the best movies ever made and was the one who took me to see it.) <<bad guys are Nazis...Bakshi couldn't make up his own bad guys>> I feel that this is a trivialization of what I thought was a good statement that the movie made. The bad guys weren't just nazis -- the point was that they had no cause to fight for and therefore, even though they were much stronger and better armed, were no match for the "good" side who was fighting for their homes, lives, loves, etc. Fighting for their leader (who didn't do a lot for them to make them brim over with loyalty) to fulfill his kicks wasn't enough to make them stand up against the "strength" of the good side. They needed a strong motivation and the use of Hitler's propaganda was a nice touch because who ever did propaganda better for the same reasons and to the same end?? I mean, who else could convince an entire nation to not only allow and condone concentration/extermination camps, but fight the rest of the world for the right to use them? I like the thought that the strength of your convictions can make you strong and that lack in them makes you weak and ineffectual. It also frightens me to watch the power of propaganda like Hitler's, but I think its important to remind ourselves of this fact, lest we allow something like that to happen again. I think Wizards did a good job of showing both of these ideas. ~Brenda
tallman@dspo.UUCP (04/25/85)
One thing that bothered me about WIZARDS was that the first few minutes of
the film were not animated. Instead, the camera pans over some uncolored,
unfinished sketches. It seemed that Bakshi had gotten tired of drawing or
had a low animation budget. Perhaps it was meant to indicate the dim past
as a background to the main story, but I still did not like it.
--
C. David Tallman - dspo!tallman@LANL or {ucbvax!unmvax,ihnp4}!lanl!dspo!tallman
Los Alamos National Laboratory - E-10/Data Systems
Los Alamos, New Mexico - (505) 667-8495crm@duke.UUCP (Charlie Martin) (04/29/85)
In article <217@dspo.UUCP> tallman@dspo.UUCP writes: >One thing that bothered me about WIZARDS was that the first few minutes of >the film were not animated. Instead, the camera pans over some uncolored, >unfinished sketches. It seemed that Bakshi had gotten tired of drawing or >had a low animation budget. Perhaps it was meant to indicate the dim past >as a background to the main story, but I still did not like it. > Uhh... you're kidding, right? This is a belated AprilFool posting? Those "uncolored, unfinished sketches" were rather nice conte' or pastel drawings, done on a gray textured paper. They're *supposed* to look like that, honest! (I also think they were the best looking part of the picture -- the the rotoscoped WWI flicks really put me off.) -- Charlie Martin (...mcnc!duke!crm)
gnome@olivee.UUCP (Gary Traveis) (04/30/85)
> One thing that bothered me about WIZARDS was that the first few minutes of > the film were not animated. Instead, the camera pans over some uncolored, > unfinished sketches. It seemed that Bakshi had gotten tired of drawing or > had a low animation budget. Perhaps it was meant to indicate the dim past > as a background to the main story, but I still did not like it. > > -- > C. David Tallman - dspo!tallman@LANL or {ucbvax!unmvax,ihnp4}!lanl!dspo!tallman > Los Alamos National Laboratory - E-10/Data Systems > Los Alamos, New Mexico - (505) 667-8495 OK, you didn't like it, well I did. Mainly because it was illustrated by Mike Ploog. Mike Ploogs artwork is known for it's ability to show motion (or the feeling of action) through drawn media. He went on to do a couple of introduction pieces in a comic called Wierdworld. But that was a long time ago. I haven't seen much from him since -- but that comment belongs in net.comics... Gary