[mod.music.gaffa] the KaTastrophic state of music in our time

Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU (01/21/87)

Really-From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU

News: Kate's LP The Whole Story has
indeed already gone double platinum
in England, signifying sales of 600,000
units (a hell of a lot of LPs for a
country the size of England). In fact,
however, it had already sold more than
750,000 units BEFORE attaining the
number one spot this week over there,
so, according to Record Mirror's chart
file expert, it is destined to become
Kate's first-ever million-seller in the UK.
Cashbox puts it at number 63 in the U.S. this week.

For the sake of argument (and out of a profound sense
of desperation), IED challenges anyone reading this to name ONE record
made since the early Seventies that attains a level of thematic and
musical complexity, multi-level meaning and sophisticated cohesion of
music and production comparable to that achieved by Kate Bush since 1982.
IT CANNOT BE DONE! SUCH MUSIC DOES NOT EXIST!

I BET MY MUM'S GONNA GIVE ME A LITTLE TOY!

-- Andrew Marvick

Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU.UUCP (01/21/87)

Really-From: Joel Kollin <mit-amt!joel@seismo.CSS.GOV>
From: joel@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Joel Kollin)

In article <8701210112.AA28287@EDDIE.MIT.EDU>, Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.ED> Really-From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
> 
> For the sake of argument (and out of a profound sense
> of desperation), IED challenges anyone reading this to name ONE record
> made since the early Seventies that attains a level of thematic and
> musical complexity, multi-level meaning and sophisticated cohesion of
> music and production comparable to that achieved by Kate Bush since 1982.
> IT CANNOT BE DONE! SUCH MUSIC DOES NOT EXIST!
> 
> I BET MY MUM'S GONNA GIVE ME A LITTLE TOY!
> 
> -- Andrew Marvick

The early seventies reference seems to indicate that the last group
you put on a pedestal was the Beatles, or perhaps Pink Floyd.  While
their latest stuff is comparatively lame, both Davids Byrne and Bowie
can be considered to be at the very least in the same league as Kate
Bush in terms of lyrics and music, not to mention (over-)production.
The albums produced by Brian Eno are particularly interesting,
especially "Remain in Light" by the Talking Heads.  In fact, I would
find it hard to believe that Kate was not influenced by these artists,
and probably Peter Gabriel as well.

On the other hand, it seems like all of the above except Eno have sold
out, and I am hard pressed to find any good music (in this vein)
produced in the past few years besides KB.  Well, there's Suzanne
Vega, the Cocteau Twins...

Wait a minute, I'm starting to see a trend here...

joel kollin (joel@MEDIA-LAB.MIT.EDU)

How do you use one of those .signature things, anyway?

[Kate was definitely *very* influenced by The Beatles, Pink Floyd,
David Bowie, Brian Eno, and Peter Gabriel.  I doubt that she was much
influenced by David Byrne, though.  I've never seen her mention him
and Talking Heads were not very well known in England until about a
year ago. -- Doug]

Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU (01/21/87)

Really-From: rosen%ji.Berkeley.EDU@BERKELEY.EDU (Rob Rosen)

>
>For the sake of argument (and out of a profound sense
>of desperation), IED challenges anyone reading this to name ONE record
>made since the early Seventies that attains a level of thematic and
>musical complexity, multi-level meaning and sophisticated cohesion of
>music and production comparable to that achieved by Kate Bush since 1982.
>IT CANNOT BE DONE! SUCH MUSIC DOES NOT EXIST!
>

	David Sylvian's "Gone to Earth."
-- 

		Rob Rosen
		Computer Systems Support Group
		University of California

	rosen@ucbarpa.Berkeley.EDU (the syntactically correct address)
	ucbvax!rosen (for people who actually LIKE source routing)

Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU (01/22/87)

Really-From: seismo!udenva!showard (Steve "Blore" Howard)

>For the sake of argument (and out of a profound sense
>of desperation), IED challenges anyone reading this to name ONE record
>made since the early Seventies that attains a level of thematic and
>musical complexity, multi-level meaning and sophisticated cohesion of
>music and production comparable to that achieved by Kate Bush since 1982.
>IT CANNOT BE DONE! SUCH MUSIC DOES NOT EXIST!

  One?  I can name a couple dozen.  Let's see, you want a) thematic
complexity, b) musical complexity c) multi-level meaning and d) soph-
isticated cohesion of music and production. 

  A partial list:

  Peter Gabriel:   Ouevre
  Talking Heads:   Fear of Music, Remain in Light, Speaking in Tongues
  King Crimson:    Discipline
  Pink Floyd:      The Wall, The Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here
  Alan Parsons:    Tales of Mystery and Imagination, Pyramid
  Shriekback:      Big Night Music
  Joy Division:    Closer (Fact XXV)
  Various Artists: Lost in the Stars:  the music of Kurt Weill
  Neil Young:      Rust Never Sleeps
  Pete Townshend:  All the Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes, White City
  The Who:         Who's Next (you said early 70s)
  XTC:             Black Sea, The Big Express
  Boomtown Rats:   The Fine Art of Surfacing

  I count 24 albums here (5 for Gabriel), each of which I am prepared to
defend as examples of IED's four virtues.  Each of these, I contend, is
equal or superior to Kate Bush in the first three categories.  The fourth
(sophisticated cohesion of music and production) I will amend somewhat to
read "sophisticated cohesion of music and production, within the limits
of the available technology," as none of these albums were recorded at
Abbey Road since 1982.  I still dispute whether d) is a virtue or not,
but that's a whole 'nother thing.

-- 

"Wait a minute!  These aren't blender wounds!"

Steve "Blore" Howard, not playing with a full deck
                      {hplabs, seismo}!hao!udenva!showard
or {boulder, cires, ucbvax!nbires, cisden}!udenva!showard

Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU.UUCP (01/22/87)

Really-From: bc@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (bill coderre)

In article <8701212341.AA14099@udenva.UUCP>, Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU writes:
 >For the sake of argument (and out of a profound sense
 >of desperation), IED challenges anyone reading this to name ONE record
 >made since the early Seventies that attains a level of thematic and
 >musical complexity, multi-level meaning and sophisticated cohesion of
 >music and production comparable to that achieved by Kate Bush since 1982.
 >IT CANNOT BE DONE! SUCH MUSIC DOES NOT EXIST!
 
"Blore" regrettably forgot Brian Eno, perhaps the most obvious
example. It still amazes me that whenever I find someone doing a cover
of an Eno tune (serious musicians I respect, mind you, like Birdsongs
of the Mesozoic), you can actually say, "Wow, what a great cover --
but Eno did this and that and the other thing which make it much
superior." Eno pretty much cannot play any instruments, but knew
enough about tape recorders, and had a severe case of artists'
discipline, which made him produce 4+ records of the best pop music
ever. (I base this on the fact that it's >10 years later, and not too
much that I've heard comes close.)

And don't forget the non-mainstream stuff that also just happens to be
equally complex as this Miss Bush. Two immediate examples are Pere Ubu
and Matching Mole.

Pere Ubu's "The Modern Dance" remains brilliant like no other.
Whenever I listen to it, after these thousand or so times I've heard
it, it still picks me up and shakes me. Scary, enrapturing, a dark and
wonderful look at things. What might now be called "deathrock"
(although it has nothing to do with death or despair), it had all the
noisy guitars and tapes of breaking glass years before the
competition. Available on Italian (Base Records) import, good quality
vinyl, $7 new or so. If you like that, then be sure to check out
"Terminal Tower" which is a collection of their rarities, mostly from
an impossibly out-of-print EP "Datapanik in the Year Zero". *That's*
on Twin/Tone records, a pretty big label, and freshly printed. Should
be easy to find. (The other Pere Ubu records are entirely different,
more resembling poetry with accompaniment, so I've skipped them, even
though I happen to like them.)

Matching Mole has one of the most complicated name-stories in history.
Several members of Soft Machine (which you should also check out)
splintered off and produced "Matching Mole's Little Red Record",
brilliant subversive communist mood music, with nice hooks. You catch
yourself humming along, then you go "But wait! What are they saying?"
then you figure it out.... Oh yeah, the name story. Well, "Soft
Machine" *en Franc,ais* is "Machine Molle" <=sounds=like=> "Matching
Mole." This record is readily available around Boston for $3-$4 for a
good used copy.

Well, I'm sorry I'm not coherent right now, but I'm sure you get the
idea. Bands, for the most part, do not have their collective head up
their collective posterior. They know about how to craft records, and
many opt to make their sound unique. Some more than others, sure,
but.... If Mr IED is filled with "desperation[sic]" at not hearing
anything else as "good" as Kate Bush, perhaps he should open his ears
and listen to something else. It's too bad that it's tough to find
this stuff on the radio, but hey,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,bc

Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU.UUCP (01/27/87)

Really-From: wmartin@ngp.utexas.edu (Wiley Sanders)

In article <8701210237.AA19529@MEDIA-LAB.MIT.EDU> you write:
>Really-From: Joel Kollin <mit-amt!joel@seismo.CSS.GOV>
>From: joel@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Joel Kollin)
>
>In article <8701210112.AA28287@EDDIE.MIT.EDU>, Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.ED> Really-From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
>> 
>> IED challenges anyone reading this to name ONE record
>> ... that attains a level of thematic and
>> musical complexity, multi-level meaning and sophisticated cohesion of
>> music and production comparable to that achieved by Kate Bush since 1982.
>> IT CANNOT BE DONE! SUCH MUSIC DOES NOT EXIST!
>
Please igmore previous message! I hadn't read the question!
The previous message extolled the virtues of "Never Mind the Bollocks":
Thematic and Musical (mucus-ile?) Complexity - NONE
Multi-Level Meaning - NONE!
Sophisticated Cohesion of Music and Production - You've got to be Kidding!
Still - NMTB is still in my top five.
Along with KB, of course.
-w