Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU (01/13/87)
Really-From: rhr@osupyr.UUCP (Robert Robinson)
So far, Ive listened to all the Kate Bush music I could get hold of. This
is no small amount. I went through this to try to see why so many of you
mod.music.gaffians were singing the praises of this person. All I have to say
now is "C'mon, get a life!!" This "four octave range inspirational and
totally mind blowing singing wonder" is one of the most overrated artists to
come down the pike. I tried so hard to see what you see, (even got hold of
a concert videotape, the Experiment V video, and the Running Up That Hill video),
but it's just not there. As a singer, she's marginal at best, and as a
redefining force, nonexistant.
I know at this point that you're assuming that I have never left the
sheltered top 40 pop music world, and my naive ears just couldn't
understand true genious if it hit me over the head, but my intrests run from
Brahms, through BB King, to Butthole Surfers. I am a bass player who has played
everything from the Dregs to the Dreaded Ones, including Dvorak. If you feel
that there is anything that might shed some light on why Kate Bush is such
rated such a wonderful singers, please inform.
Good Luck With It,
--
****************************************************************************
* "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy' until you can find a rock."*
****************************************************************************
* Gaelan the Slightly Confused, King of the Undefined. *
* Contact at (insert path here)!cbogsd!osupyr!rhr *
* "Its the squeaky wheel that gets the grease, *
* But its the quacking duck that gets shot" *
* *
* System Operator (believe it or not) @ *
* OSUPYR @ Ohio State University *
* Any letters will be duly read, and quickly dismissed as frivolous. *
****************************************************************************Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU (01/24/87)
Really-From: nessus (Doug Alan) > From: rhr@osupyr.UUCP (Robert Robinson) > I tried so hard to see what you see, (even got hold of a concert > videotape, the Experiment V video, and the Running Up That Hill > video), but it's just not there. As a singer, she's marginal at > best, and as a redefining force, nonexistant. C'mon! Get a brain! Anyone who would say that "Kate Bush it at best a marginal singer" is either just trying to be argumentative or is brain-dead. And there are enough famous musicians who say that Kate Bush is a redefining force to make her one. No one is saying that you have to like her music, but at this point it is close to undeniable that her music *is* great. And we don't love Kate as just a "singer". She's also a fantastic composer, lyricist, keyboardist, producer, coreographer, video designer and director, etc. |>oug
Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU.UUCP (01/27/87)
Really-From: rhr@osupyr.UUCP (Robert Robinson) In article <8701240522.AA02821@EDDIE.MIT.EDU> Love-Hounds@EDDIE.MIT.EDU writes: >Really-From: nessus (Doug Alan) > >> From: rhr@osupyr.UUCP (Robert Robinson) > >> I tried so hard to see what you see, (even got hold of a concert >> videotape, the Experiment V video, and the Running Up That Hill >> video), but it's just not there. As a singer, she's marginal at >> best, and as a redefining force, nonexistant. > >C'mon! Get a brain! Anyone who would say that "Kate Bush it at best >a marginal singer" is either just trying to be argumentative or is >brain-dead. And there are enough famous musicians who say that Kate >Bush is a redefining force to make her one. How many is "enough" Doug? I didn't see any names in your reply. Is enough supposed to be everyone that a person could like? > >No one is saying that you have to like her music, but at this point it >is close to undeniable that her music *is* great. And we don't love >Kate as just a "singer". She's also a fantastic composer, lyricist, >keyboardist, producer, coreographer, video designer and director, etc. > > |>oug I like this one. I don't think that anyone has found a person whos music is undeniably great. Again, its all a matter of opinion. I could say that Sylvester Stallone is an undeniably good actor, but that would only be an opinion. Im sure that if I tried I could find "enough" people to say anything. If you're going to flame, do it right.... -- Those Phone Cops play hardball!! **************************************************************************** * Gaelan the Slightly Confused, King of the Undefined. * * "Its the squeaky wheel that gets the grease, * * But its the quacking duck that gets shot" * * * * Any letters will be duly read, and quickly dismissed as frivolous. * ****************************************************************************
Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU.UUCP (01/28/87)
Really-From: nessus (Doug Alan) > From: rhr@osupyr.UUCP (Robert Robinson) >> [Me:] C'mon! Get a brain! Anyone who would say that "Kate Bush is >> at best a marginal singer" is either just trying to be >> argumentative or is brain-dead. And there are enough famous >> musicians who say that Kate Bush is a redefining force to make her >> one. > How many is "enough" Doug? I didn't see any names in your reply. Is > enough supposed to be everyone that a person could like? I don't really think it's worth bothering arguing with you, because like I said before, your statement that "Kate Bush is at best a marginal singer" is just outright ludicrous. If you are going to say that I am not flaming correctly because I have not provided every factual piece of evidence to support my obviously true claims, then you must be at least as guilty, since you have provided not a shred of factual evidence for your ludicrous claims. In any case, I didn't provide a list of musicians who have said that Kate Bush is a very important musician, because this has all been covered before. I'm not going to go and dig up every last reference for you, because I have no desire to do that much work for someone who is either brain-dead or an argumentative asshole, but I can list a fair number off of the top of my head. Some musicians who have said they think that Kate Bush is the best musician around: Todd Rundgren, the lead singer of Venom, Freddie Mercury. Some musicians who have said that Kate Bush is a very influential musician: Peter Gabriel, David Gilmour, Roy Harper, Tangerene Dream (said that Kate Bush is the person currently doing the most interesting work with synthesizers), Big Country, the lead singer of Depeche Mode, Simon le Bon, Nick Rhodes, the bass player of Pat on the Back, Annie Lennox. Some musicians who have clearly been influenced by Kate Bush: Liz Frazer, Throwing Muses, Lisa Dabello. The list goes on... >> No one is saying that you have to like her music, but at this point >> it is close to undeniable that her music *is* great. And we don't >> love Kate as just a "singer". She's also a fantastic composer, >> lyricist, keyboardist, producer, coreographer, video designer and >> director, etc. > I like this one. I don't think that anyone has found a person whos > music is undeniably great. Again, its all a matter of opinion. I > could say that Sylvester Stallone is an undeniably good actor, but > that would only be an opinion. Im sure that if I tried I could find > "enough" people to say anything. Bullpucky! Beethoven was undeniably a great composer. I don't even like him that much, but his music contained a level of innovation and power such that it had a great affect on a wide spectrum of musicians, critics, and normal people. This *makes* Beethoven a great composer. Likewise, Kate Bush's music has had a profound effect on a vast number of people and has gathered an intensely dedicated following among a wide spectrum of musicians, critics, and normal people. This makes Kate a great musician. "They look down at the ground, missing" |>oug
Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU.UUCP (01/29/87)
Really-From: ranjit%cory.Berkeley.EDU@BERKELEY.EDU (Ranjit Bhatnagar) In article <8701281707.AA17917@EDDIE.MIT.EDU> Doug writes: >Bullpucky! Beethoven was undeniably a great composer. I don't even >like him that much, but his music contained a level of innovation and >power such that it had a great affect on a wide spectrum of musicians, >critics, and normal people. This *makes* Beethoven a great composer. >Likewise, Kate Bush's music has had a profound effect on a vast number >of people and has gathered an intensely dedicated following among a >wide spectrum of musicians, critics, and normal people. This makes >Kate a great musician. I hate to even say it, but that criterion makes Madonna a great musician too. Well, perhaps she is. (Of course we can disqualify ANYONE from this criterion by redefining the fans as ABnormal people.) Now to get serious, that is, to praise Kate. I've now had the chance to listen to _The Kick Inside_ about as many times as _Hounds_ and _The Dreaming_ (and _Never for Ever_ almost as often. How come my album, with a special sticker that says "Includes 'Never for Ever,'" doesn't have any songs called 'Never for Ever' on it?). I enjoy this album at least as much as the later ones, perhaps because it's simpler. I played _The Dreaming_ for a friend, whose comment was "Sounds like someone trying to be artsy-fartsy." This could be considered a fault. I would suspect that _Kick Inside_ is more accessible, since it follows "the rules" more of the time. I get the impression that _The Kick Inside_ came after _Never for Ever_. Is this true? As long as I'm here, I would like to cast my votes for albums as complex and interesting as _The Dreaming_. Talking Heads, _Remain in Light_ Pink Floyd, _Dark Side of the Moon_ The Beatles, _Abbey Road_ The Roches, _Keep On Doing_ (for somewhat different reasons) Scott Johnson, _John Somebody_ (for COMPLETELY different reasons) I might come up with others, given time. One characteristic common to all of these - which is vital to be considered "complex and interesting" - is that I hear a different album each time I play one of these. This is most evident in _Remain in Light_, least so in _John Somebody_, and somewhere in between for _The Dreaming_. By the way, I don't own any albums by Brian Eno, but, from what I've heard, I expect that I would put at least a few of his records in the above list. Bought Benatar's album with the cover of "Wuthering Heights." Ugh. Finally: I recommend to everyone the NET.ALBUM cassette - available from Greg Taylor gtaylor@astroatc. Worth it at twice the price (to coin a phrase). -r- -- .......(o o)....... ranjit@cory.berkeley.edu ---vvv---U---vvv--- ucbvax!cory!ranjit "Irrationality is the square root of all evil" - Douglas Hofstadter "Who's interfering? We're taking over." - Capt. James Kirk
Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU.UUCP (01/29/87)
Really-From: nessus (Doug Alan) > From: ranjit%cory.Berkeley.EDU@BERKELEY.EDU (Ranjit Bhatnagar) >> [Me:] Likewise, Kate Bush's music has had a profound effect on a >> vast number of people and has gathered an intensely dedicated >> following among a wide spectrum of musicians, critics, and normal >> people. This makes Kate a great musician. > I hate to even say it, but that criterion makes Madonna a great > musician too. Well, perhaps she is. This criterion does not make Madonna a great musician! Sure, Madonna has a lot of fans. But how many people really think she's a great musician, rather than someone who just makes "fun" music. How many people, other than thirteen year-old girls who suddenly get an urge to wear their underwear on the outside of their clothes, would say "Madonna's music has profoundly effected my life"? I'm sure you could find *some*, but not a huge number. Furthermore, I doubt that you could find very many critics or musicians who would say that Madonna is a great musician. Sure, Sonic Youth, when they do record reviews, rant about how awesome Madonna is, but it's hard to believe that they are really serious. These days it's almost common to find reviews of Kate Bush appearing in British magazines that say things like "Kate Bush is the rarest solo artist our country has ever produced". When have you ever seen any similar statement about Madonna? > I enjoy this album at least as much as the later ones, perhaps > because it's simpler. I played _The Dreaming_ for a friend, whose > comment was "Sounds like someone trying to be artsy-fartsy." Sure you weren't playing him "Big Science"? I really don't see how somone can say that about *The Dreaming*. It doesn't use any of the cliches of artsy-fartsyness (except for an ethnic rhythm here and there and the Fairlight, but in 1982, these weren't cliches yet). It just sounds weird. If someone equates weird with artsy-fartsyness, then that's their problem. If anything, *The Kick Inside* sounds more "artsy-fartsy" than *The Dreaming*. > This could be considered a fault. I would suspect that _Kick > Inside_ is more accessible, since it follows "the rules" more of the > time. *The Kick Inside* is definitely considered a more accessible album than *The Dreaming*. (I don't consider accessibility a positive feature, however.) Just look at the sales figures. In England, *The Kick Inside* has sold close to a million copies and *The Dreaming* only sold only a bit over a hundred thousand. Strangely, enough, in the U.S., *The Dreaming* sold better than *The Kick Inside*, but perhaps that was because no one had heard of her here when *The Kick Inside* came out. I bet *The Kick Inside* sells better these days; however, I do know people who like *The Dreaming*, but don't like *The Kick Inside* because they say her voice on *The Kick Inside* effects them like chalk on a blackboard. > I get the impression that _The Kick Inside_ came after _Never for > Ever_. Is this true? Why do you get that impression? Does "Breathing" sound like it was recorded before "The Man With The Child In His Eyes"? *The Kick Inside* is Kate's first album. *Never for Ever* is her third. > As long as I'm here, I would like to cast my votes for albums as complex > and interesting as _The Dreaming_. > Pink Floyd, _Dark Side of the Moon_ No way! Look, before I was fanatic about Kate Bush, I was fanatic about Pink Floyd. I've listened to every post-Meddle album hundreds of times, so I think I can safely say that I'm a serious fan. But Pink Floyd's strength has never been complexity. As Kate Bush has said, one of their main strengths was in being able to say so much with relatively simple music and just a few instruments. Bsides, *Wish You Were Here* and *Animals* are much better than *Dark Side of the Moon*. |>oug "Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream"
Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU.UUCP (01/29/87)
Really-From: ebm@ernie.Berkeley.EDU (Grady Toss) In article <8701291226.AA02864@EDDIE.MIT.EDU> Doug Alan write: > > Bsides, *Wish You Were Here* and *Animals* are much better than > *Dark Side of the Moon*. You know my writing hand was just starting to recover from all the superbowl records I had to change, and now this! I hope you're all keep track out there. ... g rady t oss
Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU.UUCP (01/30/87)
Really-From: ranjit%cory.Berkeley.EDU@BERKELEY.EDU (Ranjit Bhatnagar) In article <8701291226.AA02864@EDDIE.MIT.EDU> Doug writes: > >This criterion does not make Madonna a great musician! Sure, Madonna >has a lot of fans. But how many people really think she's a great >musician, rather than someone who just makes "fun" music. How many >people, other than thirteen year-old girls who suddenly get an urge to >wear their underwear on the outside of their clothes, would say >"Madonna's music has profoundly effected my life"? I'm sure you could >find *some*, but not a huge number. Furthermore, I doubt that you >could find very many critics or musicians who would say that Madonna >is a great musician. Sure, Sonic Youth, when they do record reviews, >rant about how awesome Madonna is, but it's hard to believe that they >are really serious. These days it's almost common to find reviews of >Kate Bush appearing in British magazines that say things like "Kate >Bush is the rarest solo artist our country has ever produced". When >have you ever seen any similar statement about Madonna? > OK, you win. I wasn't planning to fight hard for this one. >> I enjoy this album at least as much as the later ones, perhaps >> because it's simpler. I played _The Dreaming_ for a friend, whose >> comment was "Sounds like someone trying to be artsy-fartsy." > >Sure you weren't playing him "Big Science"? I really don't see how >somone can say that about *The Dreaming*. Yet he did. And he ain't entirely closed minded about such things. >It doesn't use any of the >cliches of artsy-fartsyness (except for an ethnic rhythm here and >there and the Fairlight, but in 1982, these weren't cliches yet). It >just sounds weird. If someone equates weird with artsy-fartsyness, >then that's their problem. If anything, *The Kick Inside* sounds more >"artsy-fartsy" than *The Dreaming*. > What about helicopters and a grating screech repeated over and over? >> This could be considered a fault. I would suspect that _Kick >> Inside_ is more accessible, since it follows "the rules" more of the >> time. > >*The Kick Inside* is definitely considered a more accessible album >than *The Dreaming*. (I don't consider accessibility a positive >feature, however.) Just look at the sales figures. In England, *The >Kick Inside* has sold close to a million copies and *The Dreaming* >only sold only a bit over a hundred thousand. > Hah! I was right. ...I don't consider accessibility a positive feature, but neither do I consider it negative. (I'll even listen to Madonna once in a while. A long while.) >Strangely, enough, in the U.S., *The Dreaming* sold better than *The >Kick Inside*, but perhaps that was because no one had heard of her >here when *The Kick Inside* came out. I bet *The Kick Inside* sells >better these days; however, I do know people who like *The Dreaming*, >but don't like *The Kick Inside* because they say her voice on *The >Kick Inside* effects them like chalk on a blackboard. > And I know people who would probably like the jazzy sound of _Never for Ever_ but would consider _The Dreaming_ artsy-fartsy. Whose friends are a better judge? : ) >> I get the impression that _The Kick Inside_ came after _Never for >> Ever_. Is this true? > >Why do you get that impression? Does "Breathing" sound like it was >recorded before "The Man With The Child In His Eyes"? *The Kick >Inside* is Kate's first album. *Never for Ever* is her third. > Interesting to know. Thinking back on these albums, I can think of as many clues that should have led me to the correct interpretation as sent me astray. >> As long as I'm here, I would like to cast my votes for albums as complex >> and interesting as _The Dreaming_. > >> Pink Floyd, _Dark Side of the Moon_ > >No way! Look, before I was fanatic about Kate Bush, I was fanatic >about Pink Floyd. I've listened to every post-Meddle album hundreds >of times, so I think I can safely say that I'm a serious fan. But >Pink Floyd's strength has never been complexity. As Kate Bush has >said, one of their main strengths was in being able to say so much >with relatively simple music and just a few instruments. Bsides, >*Wish You Were Here* and *Animals* are much better than *Dark Side of >the Moon*. I disagree there- however simple their instrumentation or melodies are - I don't believe their music is simple. If we can disagree on a definition of complexity, how will we ever agree on The Greatest Albums? I like _Dark Side_ best, but I won't challenge your choices. I have not listened to those two albums. Please be careful about ddclaring what's better than what - instead, tell me what you LIKE better. Then I can believe you. > > |>oug > >"Wave upon wave of demented avengers march > cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream" Oh yeah? "Queen spelling bee, she stung me..." Comments on the use of "leitmotifs" in _The Third Wave_. I find Kate's use of melodic motives to tie different songs together (eg "Look at it go" to "the big sky") often unsubtle compared to, say, Pink Floyd, and even annoying: when I hear "Just look at it..." the melody forces me to think "under the big..." (You're welcome to say that it's my problem, for it IS, but you won't convince me of anything that way.) If this is intentional, I don't like it. If it's not, I still don't like it. Come to think of it, I'm also bothered by "Here comes the sun... king." Conclusion: I think Floyd and Wagner handle leitmotifs better than KaTe and the Beatles, at least in some cases. Thanks, someone, for reminding me of the name of the Eno album I'd forgotten. I'd put _Life in the Bush of Ghosts_ in my hall-of fame too. So there. r.