Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU.UUCP (02/19/87)
Really-From: nessus (Doug Alan) > [Rob Rosen:] I merely stated that what others often mistake as > intentional non-craftedness (excuse the clumsiness of the > expression) is actually constructed carefully to give just that > impression, and that Eno often constructs his music with that goal > in mind; he has often issued statements to this effect in interviews > and written essays. So, you're accusing Eno of lying on his liner notes for *Discrete Music*, where he explicitly states that the album was an exercise in setting up a system and then letting it run with the tape recorder going and no further intervention on his part? |>oug
Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU.UUCP (02/20/87)
Really-From: nessus (Doug Alan) >> [Me:] So, you're accusing Eno of lying on his liner notes for >> *Discrete Music*, where he explicitly states that the album was an >> exercise in setting up a system and then letting it run with the >> tape recorder going and no further intervention on his part? > [Rob Rosen:] I said "often," not "ALWAYS." You're apparently > extrapolating YOUR cognitive processes onto MY statements. Then, Mr. Rosen, what has been the point of all your recent postings? I said that "SOME" of Eno's works were nearly uncrafted. You then posted a response saying that this is balderdash, that you won't let your idol be trod upon and that Eno is a master craftsman (I never contradicted this). So, I post a response saying that some of Eno's work was *definitely* largely uncrafted, because it was intentionally uncrafted. You then follow up this with your statement that much of Eno's work is "often" mistaken for being intentionally uncrafted, when indeed it is painstakingly crafted to sound like it is uncrafted. From this, am I supposed to be able to derive that you are conceeding my point? Your use of "often" is supposed to make it clear that you do understand that some of Eno's work was indeed largely uncrafted? I think not. "Infect me with your love Nurse me into sickness" |>oug
Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU.UUCP (02/21/87)
Really-From: rosen%ji.Berkeley.EDU@Berkeley.EDU (Rob Rosen) > [Doug:] >Then, Mr. Rosen, what has been the point of all your recent postings? A very good question, indeed. The point I was trying to make, believe it or not, has very little to do with Eno, music, or IED. It has much more to do with personal philosophy. I originally issued the "Eno has SINGLE-HANDEDLY..." statement as an experiment. I wanted to see how certain people would react to that sort of statement, and then hopefully use their collective responses to make a point. (In all actuality, Eno is not my idol and I had no right to make the statement about Eno single-handedly creating the rebirth of minimalism in modern music. However, such a statement provided a convenient vehicle for the point which will soon be articulated.) The point I'm trying to make is that music is fundamentally artistic expression, and it just doesn't seem plausible to assign universal and absolute terms such as ``good'' and ``bad'' to any product of one's personal experience. It just doesn't make sense to me to describe Kate Bush's music as ``good'' while Madonna's is ``bad'' (I'm picking two somewhat random examples here). I could justify my apprehension toward abolutist statements through a long and rather tedious discussion of certain tendencies exemplified in Western philosophical studies, but that would be totally out of place in this newsgroup. It would also piss a lot of people off. It's also highly insulting to have someone imply that if I don't think what s/he listens to is ``good'' then I must be some sort of moron because his favourite music is ``so obviously good.'' To add insult to injury, my music is ``bad,'' so I'm doubly stupid for (a) not acknowledging the inherent goodness of his music, and (b) thinking my music is good when it's really bad. What it all seems to boil down to, then, is an expression of ego insecurity. If you've been following the responses to my recent postings, I think you'll find that they amount to expressions of wounded pride; certain individuals are reacting in a manner similar to the way I react when someone issues a statement which has insulting overtones or implications. I'm human, and so I occasionally get frustrated when people continually insult me, although for the most part it takes a long time for me to get irritated enough to take the somewhat radical step of actually TAKING TIME to RESPOND to these sorts of statements. I promise I won't do it again for the next year or so :-) In any event, as someone sagely said, ``let's shut the fuck up already.'' There are more productive things to be discussed. If we could somehow unwrap the holier-than-thou shell so that we can expose the infor- mation underneath, we would be much richer in knowledge. %%Rob -- Rob Rosen Computer Systems Support Group University of California rosen@ucbarpa.Berkeley.EDU (the syntactically correct address) ucbvax!rosen (for people who actually LIKE source routing)