Love-Hounds-request@EDDIE.MIT.EDU.UUCP (03/26/87)
Really-From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu > Now, does anybody have any ideas as to what all the vocal samples >in the background of "Suspended In Gaffa" are saying? The only one >that's really obvious to me is "I'm scared of the changes" which fits >in with my previously posted interpretation of the song. So, maybe >you lucky Dreaming CD owners can decipher the stuff in the background >that poor little analog me is at a loss to. > >--Jon Drukman >I'll try to cover the rest of the song at another point. Before I >quit, have you noticed that of all those background messages, one of >the most audible is "I'm scared of the changes"? Another argument for >my case, I'd say. > >Any counter or supportive arguments are welcome. > >-- Jon You've concocted a case, and an intriguing one at that. IED happens to think that your evidence is entirely circumstantial, and that Kate's own explanation (admittedly vague) explains things better, though not in any detail. Lines like "I'm scared of the changes" fit in with your interpretation, yes; but they could fit in with practically any interpretation imaginable. Unfortunately, that's true of each specific example you cite. But he admits that you've concocted a case. As for specifics, IED has always understood the first line of the song to be a reference to Kate's old eight-track home studio in the little storage-building behind the main house at East Wickham Farm ("Out in the garden there's half of a heaven..."). At some point in her childhood that became Kate's private retreat, where she wrote many of her first songs on an old decaying spinet piano. She has referred to it a number of other times in her music, most explicitly in "Under the Ivy". There's nothing wrong with your interpretation. The problem is, in order for a new and challenging idea such as yours to gain real scholarly credence, it is necessary that it be supported by evidence that effectively explains away all the previous evidence that threatens your interpretation: you must explain why Kate specifies an entirely different interpretation, and why your interpretation is MORE plausible than hers or anyone else's. The whispered lines, explained in the video as being questions asked by the character to her mother as a small child, are as follows: (After first verse: "I caught a glimpse of a god...All shiny and bright." (After second verse: "Will I dream? Maybe..." (After third verse: "Mother (can't remember). I'm scared of the changes." Incidentally, these were deciphered before the acquisition of a CD. You've just got to listen more obsessively, that's all! >From: "ROSSI J.A." <rossi@nusc> >Subject: Gaffa >Thanks Jon. I'm glad that someone else has transcended the old Gaffer's tape >interpretation of this song. I'm sure that the big Kate guns are at this >moment being fired, using interpretations of interviews as their shells. >I posted something concerning this a while back, also assuming the root of >Gaffa to be gaffe. If you are not looking for 'deep symbolic meaning', >the social blunder aspect is much more in line with the literal meaning >of the song. But, Doug has informed me that I am wrong. I like the >sex angle (that is as much as I can like any symbolic interpretation). There >is more coroboration for the lost virginity view in the literal verse than >anything else I've heard about on this list. > >-- John This Kate gun, at least, refrains from dismissing the interp. out of hand: it IS interesting. Perhaps, however, it's also about time someone DID dig up one of Kate's own explanations of the song: "When I wrote this track the words came at the same time, and this is one of the few songs where the lyrics were complete at such an early stage. The idea of the song is that of being given a glimpse of "God" -- something that we dearly want -- but being told that unless we work for it, we will never see it again, and even then, we might not be worthy of it. Of course, everybody wants the reward without the toil, so people try to find a way out of the hard work, still hoping to claim the prize, but such is not the case. The choruses are meant to express the feeling of entering timelessness as you become ready for the experience, but only when you are ready." No doubt something could be made of her choice of language, especially her vague reference to "the experience"; but Kate has never been coy about discussing sex when it was relevant. So if sex was the true subject of the song, it's unlikely that she would have kept it such a secret -- and even more unlikely that she would have offered a misleading alternate explanation such as the one above (about work and laziness and the search for nirvana, so to speak -- roughly the same subject as "Sat In Your Lap"). So, while IED for one doesn't discount your hypothesis completely, it has a long way to go before attaining the status of doKTrine. >After making my comment, I spent the better part of two days travelling >with Kate playing on the Walkman almost constantly, thinking about this >question, and pretty much came to the same conclusion. In listening to >"The Kick Inside" and "Lionheart" after listening to the Hammersmith >concert soundtrack, the vocals seem flat. There is much more color and >emotional expression in the live performance. This, plus the added >theatrical expression would more than compensate for the musical >compromises. Much of subtlety could be retained through judicious use >of pre-recorded passages (something she did do in the last tour). >One thing I would love to see would be Paddy Bush playing the musical >saw! Same here. IED didn't mean to say that the early studio vocals are "flat" in comparison with their live counterparts. Personally, he has always thought that Kate's Hammersmith vocals of "W. Heights", "James and the Cold Gun", "Lionheart", etc. were a little inhibited and careful; the tremendous difficulty of projecting the vocals through a headset radio-mike while dancing, acting and telling a story tended to result in a rather tentative (though never less than professional) style of singing. That's one thing we can be certain will not be true of any future tour. As for pre-recorded music on the last tour, the only pre-recorded bits of which IED is aware were the vocal for "Hammer Horror" (necessary because of the choreography), the whale- and wind-song, and probably (though not certainly) John Carder Bush's readings. IED doesn't believe any of the instrumental music, or any other vocals besides those just mentioned, were embellished by pre-recorded music, although some minor overdubbing may have been done for the subsequent film. >I despise the editing in the Hammersmith >concert tape! I would kill to see the unedited tapes of that show. Another good reason for attending the Kate Bush conventions. >The only video I have is the Hammersmith concert. Being a relative >newcomer to this group, I missed all the updates of when her videos >were on the air. Of course, besides what is normally available (The >Single File, the Hair of the Hound lazer-disk), I'd be interested in >other performances and interviews. By the way, several other extracts of performances from the tour were broadcast on European TV in 1979/80. They appeared on a German/Dutch show called "Kate Bush in Concert" and on a British show called "Nationwide" (episode called "Kate Bush on Tour"). Perhaps some day Kate's fans will get well enough organized to co-sponsor a proper video transfer of all her unofficial television appearances and make it available. In the meantime, you could see if Intergalactic Garage carries any of those live clips along with the rather meagre selection of lip-synchs, interviews, etc. that they offer on a two-hour VHS video-cassette for (as IED recalls) $35.00. >Huh? I'd be one of the first to say that Diamanda Galas is not for >everyone. It's very easy to find her music and lyrics rather objectionable. >But we're discussing technical proficiency (I think) here. Not exactly. The issue was "attention to detail", or something like that. Galas (and practically everyone else working in music today) may very well have the capacity to do work as brilliant and detailed as Kate's. Who knows what untapped potential may exist in each mediocre artist's soul? Certainly, many people have the "technical proficiency". Unfortunately, few people have the vision or the discipline to take their proficiency to the same level that Kate has taken hers. >Several points: 1) it's often difficult to tell how much is improvised >and how much is composed beforehand. From interviews, I would suspect >that much more of Galas' stuff is prepared than is apparent. Also, >she does most of her background vocals/noise; the background loops >seem pretty tightly controlled to me. 2) Improvisation does not >imply lack of planning, or lesser attention to detail. It's just >that you're handling the details while the music chugs along. But >if you like pre-planned, relatively deterministic music, there's plenty >in non-mainstream music too. > >-- Bill Point one agreed to. Your example is debatable, however (but then, that's your point). Part one of point two: agreed, also. In general, however, the haste with which details are handled is negatively proportionate to the soundness of their structure and to the success with which they are conceived and executed. (Always, of course, with some exceptions.) Part two of point two also agreed to. Huge thanks to Neil Calton for his informative bit on Kate's song from "Castaway". The "Brazil" soundtrack has definitely been shelved. >Incidently, Monthly Film Bulletin (which provides details of all >films releases in G.B.) for January 87 makes no mention of the song >amongst the musical credits. Whether this indicates a serious omission on >the part of MFB or whether the song was a late addition to the movie, I don't >know. (Any ideas Doug, IED ?). IED read the same capsule review that you did, Neil, and noticed the same omission. (The actual score was credited to Stanley Meyers, which led IED to assume that Kate had merely contributed a vocal to Meyers's own theme; at least until hearing otherwise from you and an Australian fan this week.) The credits are not always entirely complete in the trades, but it's probably more likely that the song hadn't been finished in time for the advance review screenings of the film. >From: EOLSON@HMCVAX (Erik Olson) >Subject: Backwards messages >Having just acquired an inexpensive quad cassette deck this week, I >immediately >put on my copy of HoL backwards to see if I could discover any clue to >what IED >is trying to figure out in the backwards track on "Watching you without Me". >One thing I found is that the backing tracks "You can't hear me, etc." are >acually saying "You can't hear me" backwards in those sections near the end >of the song where you can't understand what they say (in the section with the >"choppy" vocals ("Help me baby..."?)). >Only thing I could figure out about the "mystery" track is the first >few words >sound (to me) like "Don't need no symphony being there" >(phonetically speaking), >and the last 4 words really DO sound like "knocking us, knocking us". > >Oh well. So much for my first posting here. > >-- Erik Olson <eolson@hmcvax.bitnet> This is extremely fascinating, Erik. Thanks for the input. IED must take home your suggestions forthwith and test his ears against them. He is frankly amazed and delighted that you hear a "Don't" at all, since it has persisted in eluding him ever since it was first mentioned in the Newsletter. Not clear what the other passage you refer to is (presumably not the part right after the "mystery" track where the line "We see you here" is sung backwards several times.) This, too, will be investigated. >> IED: You can't expect anyone to believe KT's music is as >> complex as one of Brahms' symphonies, can you? >Of course it is! Probably even more so. Musicians today have many >more auditory dimensions to work with than were available before >modern technology, and Kate utilizes most of them. > > |>oug As gratified as IED is by |>oug's volley in his defense, he must disagree. He has already clarified his original statement (which anyway only said that Kate took no longer to produce her work than Brahms or Bruckner, nothing about whether Kate's music was as good or as complex) by adding that since Brahms and Bruckner used an almost entirely different musical language than Kate, comparison is at best only marginally edifying; and that even in the most general terms, Kate's work to date could only be seriously considered "more complex" than such things as Brahms's early piano sonatas, which, despite their passion and intense beauty, are still scarcely more than juvenilia. It's certainly true that any of Brahms's four symphonies outstrip even The Ninth Wave or "Get Out of My House"; but, again, such comparisons are next to meaningless, given the dissimilarity of the works. To give |>oug's point its due, a Brahms symphony's huge, masterful complexity is limited first BY his (by contemporary standards) sonically limited range of sounds; and second, TO his own essentially traditional language of notation; so that, insofar as variety of sounds goes, Kate's recent music may have some kind of edge, but in most other respects, Brahms has not been seriously threatened by Bush -- YET. >But that wasn't what I was getting at. I was referring to musical >complexity. Brahms wrote symphonies with parts for 60 or more musicians. >Granted, some of the parts are the same for players in the same section, >but there is an undeniable complexity in getting a large number of musical >parts to work together and sound as pleasing as they do. > >-- Paul And it's not just the strategic difficulty imposed by orchestration, but the elegance and intricacy of the musical ideas themselves. And pleasing isn't a strong enough word for it. To one who lived and breathed Brahms through his eleventh and twelfth grades, it's alot more than just pleasing. Still, it's an impossible comparison; for who can say that Brahms's muse was "greater" than Kate's is, in the end? Especially since it's only the beginning, for Kate. Subject: Gabriel/Kate video? Thanks to Gregory for the Budd interview; extremely well conducted and answered! Only one complaint: Couldn't you have played him something off of The Dreaming and asked him for his opinion and analysis? A great opportunity was missed. >From: KNIGHT@MAINE (Michael Knight) >Did anyone see the Gabrial/Kate video which was suppose to be on last >nights MTVs premier video hour? Due to an error in programming my VCR >I only got the first half hour or so... :-( (I thought it was 7-8pm, est. >probably was 8-9pm est.) > > --Mike Knight Don't worry, you didn't miss it: it wasn't on! They reneged on their bid, the fucking bastards. IED had to sit through interviews with a group of mongoloid dodos called "Poison" splattering their libidinous stream-of-unconsciousness all over the screen, and videos of indescribable idiocy (such as the latest from a band of sweaty narcissistic louts called "Whitesnake") for a solid hour; and in the end "Don't Give Up" didn't appear at all. If only it had just been a horrible dream! -- Andrew Marvick