taylor@hplabsc.UUCP (Dave Taylor) (10/16/86)
This article is from allegra!indra!reggie@hplabs.HP.COM
and was received on Thu Oct 16 04:12:27 1986
You must remember that this book was published in 1978, nearly eight
years ago. I must admit that I am bit biased in my opinions due to the fact
that I participate on the Electronic Information Exchange System (EIES) , Dr.
Turoff has taught a class that I took and he is also currently my advisor on
my MS Project at the New Jersey Institute of Technology.
Dr. Turoff has been recognized as the father of Computer Conferencing.
At the time this book was published EIES had been utilized as a prototype
system for the purpose of investigating not only its technical aspects, but
also its impact upon those who would utilize it. Dr. Hiltz is with the
Department of Sociology at Upsala College. I don't think that many people
were concerned with such areas as psychological aspects of using computer
systems or analyzing user behavior patterns with systems. Many empirical
studies were undertaken with this prototype.
The book is not a general treatment of society and computers but only
views how the eventual use of computerized conferencing technologies could
impact upon society. EIES is still a prototype system and a second generation
system that is more distributed in nature is nearing completion. Perhaps some
day this mode of communication will become a reality for the masses and then
this book will take on a whole new meaning to those who read it.
George W. Leach Bell Communications Research, Inc.taylor@hplabsc.UUCP (10/17/86)
This article is from hoptoad!gnu@hplabs.HP.COM (John Gilmore) and was received on Fri Oct 17 04:15:47 1986 Well, I've never met Murray Turoff or taken a course from him or used his system, but I've watched a friend use it. It struck me as about as friendly as the average BBS system, e.g. pitiful. I have heard several people rave about how good EIES is and my impression is that they either don't know much about electronic networking, or don't care how friendly it is as long as there are interesting people on the other end. I think that aside from the people who use it, the chief advantage of EIES over Usenet, compuserve, bix, fido, or a BBS system is that you can buy a book that talks all about it. The disadvantage is that it is very pricey, hard to use, and hasn't kept up with modern email/enews abilities, like the ability to gateway to and from other networks. [Perhaps we can talk about the significance of this differing expectation and the impact that it has on the rapid development of computer-based conferencing systems and "on-line communities"?? Certainly this leads one to believe that the Ivory Tower syndrome is hitting again, where what the researchers do in the University environment has no parallel to the 'real' world. All comments are welcome... -- Dave]
taylor@hplabsc.UUCP (Dave Taylor) (10/28/86)
This article is from hplabs!kitty!bakerst!kathy (Kathy Vincent) and was received on Tue Oct 21 04:19:30 1986 >Well, I've never met Murray Turoff or taken a course from him or used >his system, but I've watched a friend use it. It struck me as about as >friendly as the average BBS system, e.g. pitiful. I know nothing about EIES - not even what it is. But your comment about BBSs caught my eye. Primarily because, in general, I'd agree with you, tho I am not familiar with a great variety of different kinds of BBS software. There is one, tho, that's really good - friendly, both for the user *and* the "sysop" -- The Bread Board System (TBBS) by Phil Becker in Aurora, Colorado. I wish to goodness we could talk Phil into writing a version for UNIX. I think, too, that the software and the BBS are only as good as the person using it and setting up the BBS. For example. The first TBBS system I ever used was set up by a friend of mine who's a newspaper man. Simple, elegant, easy to use. My friend's board has been written up in articles and books on the subject of BBS'ing, and he has callers from all over the the US - and some from outside the US as well. But my friend is very organized. Someone else I know took the same software and turned it into a jungle - because his own mind is a jungle. Many of the bbs's are run by kids, kids who don't have a good sense of order and of how much structure can help people get around in a bbs.. Of the adults I know who've had bbs's, the boards of 4 out of 5 were really well done - and very popular, I might add, with *adults* who were looking for a forum for intelligent discussion. Cheers. Kathy Vincent @ bakerst
taylor@hplabsc.UUCP (Dave Taylor) (11/01/86)
This article is from hplabs!qantel!ptsfa!gilbbs!mc68020
and was received on Fri Oct 31 13:18:27 1986
In response to Kathy's article in comp-soc...
I couldn't disagree with you more about TBBS. I find it to be clunky,
unfriendly and irritating. I use a TBBS system locally, and it is one of
the silliest things I have seen yet.
Tom Keller {ihnp4, dual}!ptsfa!gilbbs!mc68020
[this leads nicely to the fact that not all interfaces are alike and that
there is no such thing as the "right" interface or a "perfect" interface,
because we're all so different! -- Dave]taylor@hplabsc.UUCP (Dave Taylor) (11/04/86)
This article is from gamma!mb2c!edsdrd!ahxenix!bob and was received on Sun Nov 2 03:24:32 1986 Tom Keller writes; > I couldn't disagree with you more about TBBS. I find it to be clunky, > unfriendly and irritating. I use a TBBS system locally, and it is one of > the silliest things I have seen yet. > Flame On The system that you are using locally may very well be "clunky" and "unfriendly" TBBS provides tools to allow the System Operator to establish almost any type of organization that he/she chooses. Actually, now that TBBS works with Seadog, I would rate it one of the better BBS packages available under PC-DOS. You can complain about a particular SYSOP's set-up, but please be careful when making general comments. Flame Off Bob Leffler [which leads to the interesting distinction of data versus organization and, more relevant here, tools versus constructed products. Rather than have this devolve into an argument about the relative merits of TBBS, let's try to discuss more the idea of supplying the tools for information organization and the uses and abuses thereof. -- Dave]
taylor@hplabsc.UUCP (11/08/86)
This article is from conway <seismo!sjuvax.sju.edu!cc743805@hplabs.HP.COM> and was received on Fri Nov 7 06:34:26 1986 In response to Tom Keller's article in comp-soc... > I couldn't disagree with you more about TBBS. I find it to be clunky, >unfriendly and irritating. I use a TBBS system locally, and it is one of >the silliest things I have seen yet. In the above piece, the 'you' metioned is Kathy. Now, on to what I really have to say. To judge one TBBS as bad and then to equate all TBBS systems as bad is a bad move. This goes for all BBS systems, be they RBBS, Collie, Fido, C-Net, A-Net, homegrown, etc., etc., etc. There are bazillions (new number, I just made it up) of public access computer systems, and they all have their merits. I do agree with you, Tom, about TBBS, it does seem more unfriendly than other BBS systems I have used. I am in the process of setting up a BBS in the Philadelphia, and have just realized that I am setting it up in a way that pleases ME, without considering the people that are going to be using it. I suppose this happens often in the BBS world, because sysops are the kings of their systems, and often rule them without help from a 'committee', making judgements less than good for the global user base. >[this leads nicely to the fact that not all interfaces are alike and that > there is no such thing as the "right" interface or a "perfect" interface, > because we're all so different! -- Dave] Maybe we could shoot off onto a tanget that discusses what people desire in an interface, and also discuss what interfaces we like, and which ones 'turn us off' :-) [feel free to start one, Chuck!! -- Dave] Chuck Conway ...{bpa | burdvax | princeton | allegra}!sjuvax!cc743805