mwm@VIOLET.BERKELEY.EDU.UUCP (02/27/87)
The requested one more rebuttal: >> > Mailing list for users of OS's capable of running on small 68000 systems, >> > primarly CP/M-68K. Related systems (OS/9-68K, etc.) and topics welcome. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Well, Mike, tell me what "Related systems and topics" is/are? Well, when I wrote that, the "related systems" was meant to apply to CP/M-68k, not the previous sentence. The example points that out. The hardware is indeed a related topic; specifically the hardware for "small systems." Memory, being a subsystem, doesn't qualify :-). >> Before you got to 4.5 or 8.5, you better check your power supply specs. >> That many chips can/will draw a lot of juice. Just a suggestion. Already done. The extra 2 meg won't need more power. Going to 8.5 will. >> The so-called 'advantages' of shared >> this-n-that are really known as limitations due to the hardware. Machines >> are growing, and the 'small system' ideas of today are going to look >> really 'small' Firstly, not all the things I mentioned were shared "this-n-that" (streams, real IPC, mountable device drivers, tasks). They're mostly things that people want to put into Unix anyway. Second, you ought to check out whats being done to Unix these days. Here's a list: MACH is the current hot Unix, getting funding from DARPA to be the next OS for Internet machines, replacing 4BSD. Guess what: it's already got shared this-n-that, tasks, real IPC, and such-like goodies. It's also _huge_. 4BSD is still being enhanced. The new major goodies are a distributed file system and VM, both designed to make life better in a networked environment with lots of workstations. Guess what? Shared this-in-that is in the specs. SysV is, as usual, going it's own way. But shared this-n-that is one of the possible extensions beyond SVID. The libraries are really crocked compared to what I'm used to, though. DEC & Sun are both working on being SVID. DEC already has shared this-n-that in Ultrix, and the largest VAXen on the UCB campus run Ultrix (at least until the 4.3 port gets done). The most popular program on campus for workstations also _requires_ shared memory on the server. Not sure if Sun has shared stuff; should find out soon, though. I don't know of any major Unix systems not based on one of the above (except for a few universities refusal to give up v7), so it looks like most of the Unix world is going to look really "small" in the near future. Of course, real production OS's (VMS, MVS, TOPS-10, AOS, etc.) have offered these "small system" features for years. BTW, I'd be interested in hearing about the hardware "limitiations" on the VAX 8700 or the Suns 3/280s (the only Suns know of that have to have the SVID version of SunOS) that require them to have shared this-n-that :-). <mike P.S. You said no more comments from you. If you decide to make one anyway, it probably oughta go by mail, as we're getting away from 68k's and into system design issues. True for this letter, also....