[net.sources.d] There are basically no export controls ... question on crypt

ted@cbosgd.ATT.COM (Ted Aseltine) (10/22/86)

Since crypt(1) (and associated programs, like passwd) can't be exported,
does anyone know of internationally-available add-on packages which
perform similar functions?  I presume that customers overseas would
not like UNIX with no login security any better than we do!

falk@sun.UUCP (10/23/86)

> Since crypt(1) (and associated programs, like passwd) can't be exported,
> ...

Actually, could someone just post the DES algorithm in english?  I'd
like to know how it works.  I'm sure *that's* not a national secret
or something.

-- 
		-ed falk, sun microsystems
			falk@sun.com
			sun!falk

guy@sun.UUCP (10/23/86)

> Since crypt(1) (and associated programs, like passwd) can't be exported,
> does anyone know of internationally-available add-on packages which
> perform similar functions?  I presume that customers overseas would
> not like UNIX with no login security any better than we do!

1) "passwd" is NOT an "associated program" of "crypt".  "crypt" uses a rotor
machine (which can be broken; see "File Security and the UNIX System Crypt
Command", by J. A. Reeds and P. J. Weinberger, in the AT&T Bell Laboratories
Technical Journal, October 1984, Vol. 63, No. 8, Part 2), while the UNIX
system's password encryption uses a tweaked form of DES.

2) No, customers overseas don't want a UNIX with no login security, so
international versions of UNIX come with password encryption.  In fact, I
believe they supply the exact same password encryption code that domestic
versions do; I believe versions shipped abroad that comply with export
restrictions just have code that forbids "raw" access to the DES #ifdeffed
in!

3) I don't think the federal government said, with a full understanding of
what they were saying, "thou shalt not export 'crypt' nor versions of 'ed'
nor 'vi' with the encryption code built in, nor shalt thou export the UNIX
system's DES password encryption code in a fashion that permits people to
use it to encrypt files."  It's more likely that there is a general
regulation about the export of encryption technology, and rather than go
through the hassle of trying to get an export license for this stuff, AT&T
just punted and said "OK, we won't bother exporting this stuff in a form
that requires a license."  Does anybody have the *real* story?
-- 
	Guy Harris
	{ihnp4, decvax, seismo, decwrl, ...}!sun!guy
	guy@sun.com (or guy@sun.arpa)

cjh@hpausla.OZ (Clifford Heath) (10/24/86)

In article <2775@cbosgd.ATT.COM> ted@cbosgd.UUCP (Ted Aseltine) writes:
>Since crypt(1) (and associated programs, like passwd) can't be exported,
>does anyone know of internationally-available add-on packages which
>perform similar functions?  I presume that customers overseas would
>not like UNIX with no login security any better than we do!

As this foreigner understands the restriction, it is not ENcryption programs
that are restricted, but DEcryption algorithms. The Un*x password encryption
is a one-way encryption, and hence not subject to restriction.

However, versions of ed and vi that edit encrypted files need to decrypt them,
so they are not (or were not, at one time) shipped internationally on HP gear,
and obviously crypt(1) isn't either.

Clifford Heath (ACSnet: cjh@hpausla.oz, UUCP ...!hplabs!hpfcla!hpausla!cjh)

P.S. Not speaking for HP here, go ask them if it's true!
P.P.S. No other disclaimers, our law hasn't (quite) reached the pits
of perversity!