SHULMAN@RED.RUTGERS.EDU (Jeffrey Shulman) (09/03/86)
Delphi Mac Digest Wednesday, 3 September 1986 Volume 2 : Issue 41 Today's Topics: RE: Hard Disk Drive Reliability (Re: Msg 12236) (9 messages) TOPS Hierarchical Database? (8 messages) INVENTORY PROGRAM International Modem RE: HFS Backup 1.1 (Re: Msg 9831) (4 messages) FullPaint ... Laser+ Memory (2 messages) Big Mac Screens RE: HD20 Boot problem LaserWriter memory RE: reaction to wordhandler RE: Need help with LightSpeed C (Part II (Re: Msg 640) (2 messages) RE: Aztec C future (Re: Msg 647) (4 messages) SICN use (3 messages) Undo in a famous editor trap vectors (5 messages) Memory Manager glue in Aztec C ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MACINTOUCH (12237) Subject: RE: Hard Disk Drive Reliability (Re: Msg 12236) Date: 30-AUG 10:46 Mousing Around The official MacInTouch benchmarks _do_ specify the same hardware/software context. Specifically, we start by initializing the hard disk, and copying the well-defined set of test files in a specific order to the hard disk. The files on floppy are maintained in a standard, non-fragmented state. Standardization problems which have come up in the testing are HFS vs. MFS and multi-volumes vs. single volumes. We try to set the hard disk up as "naturally" as possible -- the Micah as an HFS volume, the Hyper with an MFS Startup drawer and an HFS applications/data drawer, the Hard Disk 20 as a single HFS drawer. These variations are noted on the test results. I never got a chance to ask how the DataFrame XP worked. Did they add a DMA device or what? Where does the speed come from? Ric ------------------------------ From: BRECHER (12250) Subject: RE: Hard Disk Drive Reliability (Re: Msg 12237) Date: 30-AUG 21:48 Mousing Around I don't know yet how the XP Enhanced works (a "plain" XP is just an external SCSI -- it's the "Enhanced" that adds the PCB inside the Mac). I guess they are adding ROM code, sort of the logical equivalent of moving a MicahDrive AT outside the machine except leaving its ROM inside. I keep forgetting to ask Steve Edelman (SuperMac) but soon I'll stop forgetting. ------------------------------ From: LAMG (12254) Subject: RE: Hard Disk Drive Reliability (Re: Msg 12197) Date: 30-AUG 23:29 Mousing Around I'm told by SuperMac that the DataFrame XP is as fast as the Micah (internal, I guess)... I've had a DataFrame 20 since April and have been very happy with it. It's been 100% reliable so far. -Franklin ------------------------------ From: LAMG (12256) Subject: RE: Hard Disk Drive Reliability (Re: Msg 12209) Date: 30-AUG 23:33 Mousing Around Rick: I can't argue with your comment about increases in drive speed making less of a difference than one would expect. But I got a chance to see a Micah internal in action yesterday and was VERY impressed with its speed, even though my DataFrame is pretty quick. It's all relative! -Franklin ------------------------------ From: LAMG (12257) Subject: RE: Hard Disk Drive Reliability (Re: Msg 12222) Date: 30-AUG 23:36 Mousing Around Ric: Amen to that. Most of my lost time with the Mac+/DataFrame has been caused by system crashes of one type or another. For instance, I spent one particularly frustrating session trying to cut and paste text into ReadySetGo from miniWRITER, only to have it crash almost every time. Same with MockWrite. I don't know of ANY problems I've had due to hardware failure, though it's hard to tell. -Franklin ------------------------------ From: VINDICATOR (12260) Subject: RE: Hard Disk Drive Reliability (Re: Msg 12257) Date: 30-AUG 23:55 Mousing Around While at the Boston show, this question had occurred to me: apparently few drives have as much (if at all) software as the Hyperdrive, which is about the only selling point for the Hyper. While appropriateing Servant (the holy grail) I noticed that a lot of people were swiping the Hyper software off the disk as well. Now this is really (REALLY!) more for curiousity than anything, but is there anything special about Hyper software that precludes it running on the Micah, Dataframe or whatever? ------------------------------ From: MACINTOUCH (12261) Subject: RE: Hard Disk Drive Reliability (Re: Msg 12260) Date: 31-AUG 00:26 Mousing Around I believe that the Hyper software checks certain things to make sure it's running on a HyperDrive. One of the things it _can_ check is the HyperDrive serial number. Of course, the HyperDrive software also goes deep into the guts of the HyperDrive ROM and hardware - I don't know if there is a real separate layer that corresponds to what you get on other hard disks or whether it's one big conglomeration of driver/controller/formatter stuff. Ric ------------------------------ From: DWB (12264) Subject: RE: Hard Disk Drive Reliability (Re: Msg 12200) Date: 31-AUG 06:23 Mousing Around Actually, Steve, I'm not so sure that it this point in the developement what with the major slow down being the processor and not the scsi drives that the important thing isn't really the subjective/apparent speed of the drive and not how fast it can transfer blocks. David ------------------------------ From: MACSPARKY (12267) Subject: RE: Hard Disk Drive Reliability (Re: Msg 12264) Date: 31-AUG 07:37 Mousing Around Any ideas or information about the eventual Apple SCSI hard disk? ------------------------------ From: MACINTOUCH (12238) Subject: TOPS Date: 30-AUG 10:52 Business Mac We're investigating TOPS currently, and should have a review in the next issue of MacInTouch. Some of the key things that people have found are - problems getting the PC card to work on an AT&T 6300 (NETMAN) - problems when the DMA mode is used on a PC (TWEK) - No HFS volumes on the PC? - You can put System, Finder, applications and data on a PC and run it from a Mac, but it may bomb, if, for instance, you try to Print from MacWrite in this configuration. We'll probably hear more from TWEK (Ted King) and NETMAN (Jon Oski) here, but if you've got a specific question, please send them a message in MAIL. Ric Ford "MacInTouch" ------------------------------ From: NOFAL (12240) Subject: Hierarchical Database? Date: 30-AUG 15:44 Business Mac I need a special kind of database for my problem.I need a DB that can have fields that are some kind of databases by itself or some kind of arrays.Does someone know about such a DB? --Danny ------------------------------ From: MUSICWORKS (12244) Subject: RE: Hierarchical Database? (Re: Msg 12240) Date: 30-AUG 19:05 Business Mac Please Elaborate... OMNIS 3 Plus has Relational as well as Hierarctical.. (Sort of..) and it has quite extensive Array capabilities... Jundi ------------------------------ From: NOFAL (12248) Subject: RE: Hierarchical Database? (Re: Msg 12244) Date: 30-AUG 21:12 Business Mac Well ,the type of DB that I need is quite complex:I need a format of this type: Name of Costumer List of checks used(no definite lenght) And some calculations on this lists of checks. I must be able to look for the name ,date ,and result of the calculations. Wow! ------------------------------ From: MACINTOUCH (12262) Subject: RE: Hierarchical Database? (Re: Msg 12248) Date: 31-AUG 00:30 Business Mac One nice thing about the upcoming dBase Mac program is the ability to support _multi-valued_ fields! Also, dBase Mac eliminates the annoying field length restrictions present in Omnis 3 and Omnis 3 Plus. Ric ------------------------------ From: NOFAL (12263) Subject: RE: Hierarchical Database? (Re: Msg 12262) Date: 31-AUG 01:44 Business Mac But I need to desing a system that is very user friendly.Does the dBase Mac have some Toolbox interface in?Does it have any other interface instead of the old IBM PC interface? --Danny ------------------------------ From: MACINTOUCH (12286) Subject: RE: Hierarchical Database? (Re: Msg 12263) Date: 1-SEP-08:23: Business Mac dBase Mac has an outstandingly friendly interface from both the programmer's and the end user's viewpoints. While I have not used it myself yet, it seemed to be that it was a _Mac_ program in the best tradition. Ric ------------------------------ From: LOFTUSBECKER (12293) Subject: RE: Hierarchical Database? (Re: Msg 12240) Date: 1-SEP-13:03: Business Mac Danny, Double Helix's "subforms" capacity effectively allows you to display fields that are, themselves, lists. Is this what you're looking for? ^ - Lofty ------------------------------ From: LOFTUSBECKER (12295) Subject: RE: Hierarchical Database? (Re: Msg 12248) Date: 1-SEP-13:05: Business Mac I think either Omnis 3 or Double Helix would let you do what you want. Either would require a little programming, not very hard to do. - Lofty ------------------------------ From: SRS (12247) Subject: INVENTORY PROGRAM Date: 30-AUG 21:09 SIG Business I AM LOOKING FOR A GOOD INVENTORY PROGRAM FOR 512 MAC. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS. SRS ------------------------------ From: NOFAL (12249) Subject: International Modem Date: 30-AUG 21:15 Telecommunicating I want to buy another modem(mine being a Racal-Vadiac ICC 300) that is capable of 1200 baud (and possibly 2400).The problem is that I need CCITT compatibility at the three speeds.I understand that the protocols are:V.21(300), V.22 (1200), V22 bis (2400). I have to buy it in USA(not Europe).Any information? --Danny ------------------------------ From: DWB (12276) Subject: RE: HFS Backup 1.1 (Re: Msg 9831) Date: 31-AUG 22:47 Business Mac For those of you that care, I finally found out what my problem with HFS Backup is. If I run it with TMon installed I get a bomb #27 when it gets ready to ask for Backup #1 back. Without TMon it runs fine. Long and short of it is that when I get ready to do a backup I reboot off of a floopy that doesn't have TMon as it's startup application and everything works fine. David ------------------------------ From: LAMG (12278) Subject: RE: HFS Backup 1.1 (Re: Msg 12276) Date: 31-AUG 23:23 Business Mac I'm not sure if it's true, but I've always felt safer running HFS Backup from a startup floppy even without TMon installed, especially when backing up the entire volume. -Franklin ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM (12303) Subject: RE: HFS Backup 1.1 (Re: Msg 12276) Date: 1-SEP-21:48: Business Mac Daves, I have TMON as my startup application, and have never had trouble with HFS Backup. I'm sure it's not TMON at fault; it may be an EUA. Or more likely, there's an amount of memory which HFS Backup needs, which is larger than what it checks for when it starts. ------------------------------ From: DWB (12305) Subject: RE: HFS Backup 1.1 (Re: Msg 12303) Date: 1-SEP-21:57: Business Mac I have a monster mac. It is highly unlikely that the 60 or 70k or so that tmon steals would make a difference. HFS Backup still has much more than 1.5 meg to play with. It may very well be the EUA I'm using which I believe is version 665. The exact configuration which doesn't work is: Monster Mac New Rom's/800K disk drive Levco SCSI card DataFrame 20 or off the wall SASI drive using Levco's driver or my driver TMon + EUA #665 HFS Backup 1.1B5 The only thing that seems to make a difference is not loading TMon. I haven't tried not using the EUA or using a different version of it. David ------------------------------ From: DHIREN (12284) Subject: FullPaint ... Date: 1-SEP-02:47: Games and Entertainment For anyone who is interested ... Ann Arbor Softworks is now shipping FullPaint un-copy-protected !!! Hats off to them ... They also signed a deal with Esoft to bundle ColorPrint with FullPaint. They just don't throw it in the box, They have written a special manual, with instructions on how to best use FullPaint with ColorPrint. For any one who is interested in doing color work, you shold have a look at this combo. I don't know of anything better !!! Dhiren Fonseca About Macintosh ... A Users Group ... Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. ------------------------------ From: MOUSEKETEER (12309) Subject: Laser+ Memory Date: 2-SEP-01:42: Hardware & Peripherals The question came up in CO this past Sunday about remaining memory in the Laser+ on initialization. Checking with Adobe's Font Downloader on my Laser+ gives: "Available bytes of memory: 173644" What about a non-plussed (pun obviously intended) Laser? Alf ------------------------------ From: PEABO (12310) Subject: RE: Laser+ Memory (Re: Msg 12309) Date: 2-SEP-01:51: Hardware & Peripherals LaserWriter- shows 182100 bytes on paper, 181904 when displaying to the screen. After printing using the standard Apple LaserPrep, it shows 142812 and 142484 on screen. Actually, upon trying it a few times, I see the numbers vary from one try to another, but not very much. peter ------------------------------ From: MOUSEKETEER (12316) Subject: Big Mac Screens Date: 2-SEP-19:04: Hardware & Peripherals THE NOT-RADIUS NOT-SCREEN SAGA CONTINUES! According to the September 1 issue of InfoWorld (ya..ya, but they were at the showing! grin): The Radius Full Page Display (catchy name) is a $1995 8 1/2 x 11 inch screen for the Macintosh. So, despite earlier reports, it really isn't 19 feet tall and round. Then again, there's always the Radius Full World Display.... All The News In Fits, Alf [ moderators note: I saw the Radius FPD at MacExpo (in their "private" showing.) It is *really* nice and crisp. Not only that, you *still* get to use the Mac screen! As you drag a window across the display it will start to overlap with the Mac screen, you can split the window across displayes. Or say you wanted to keep you scrapbook open on the Mac display and then use the FPD to display a full page of text. Radius offers a "technote" to any developer who wants their program to be Radius "aware". Most any program written "properly" will have no problem on the FPD. On the Mac+ they've even managed to put a resize box on a window that was written WITHOUT a resize box! Jeff ] ------------------------------ From: PEABO (12332) Subject: RE: HD20 Boot problem Date: 2-SEP-21:21: Network Digests >Date: Fri, 22 Aug 86 9:33:42 EDT >From: Meredith Lesly <mlesly@labs-b.bbn.com> >Subject: HD20 Boot problem >I am in deep @*#& and would appreciate any help someone might have to offer. I think your HFS system has become confused as to which folder is the "Blessed Folder". You should boot up under a floppy system, select the System and Finder of the hard disk system, drag them to any other folder on the disk, then drag them back and Shutdown. That ought to fix it. peter ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM (12333) Subject: LaserWriter memory Date: 2-SEP-21:22: Hardware & Peripherals I found the reference to the different size Laser Prep in The Aldus File #1.1. "The LaserWriter has 1.5 million bytes of RAM memory available. Of this, 324K is available virtual memory (VM), less 90K if you are using the maximum image area. "Out of the remaining 234K, subtract 55K (if you are using a LaserWriter) or 45K (if you are using a LaserWriter Plus) for LaserPrep... Subtract another 74K/56K for Aldus Prep... The PostScript/PageMaker required overhead is 84K. This configuration leaves about 21K/49K memory available -- not enough memory for any downloadable fonts on the LaserWriter, but enough room for one downloadable font on the LaserWriter Plus. "To increase available LaserWriter memory, turn the printer off, then on again after printing with standard Macintosh applications. This purges Laser Prep and frees up an additional 55K/45K to use for two or more downloadable fonts." ------------------------------ From: PEABO (12334) Subject: RE: reaction to wordhandler Date: 2-SEP-21:43: Network Digests >Date: 28 Aug 86 14:06:00 EDT >From: <bouldin@ceee-sed.ARPA> >Subject: reaction to wordhandler >This is from a friend who tried out Wordhandler, a new word processor >for the Mac: > Touted as a replacement for MacWrite, the vendors guarantee you'll >like their program or your money back (within fifteen days). They also >offer a special discount price if you send in your MacWrite disk, "You can >have it back if you don't agree WordHandler is better". [... remarks about unsuitability omitted ...] >So, I sent it back and asked for my MacWrite disk back. Reply from ALS: >"We don't refund the special discount deal", and if I want my original >MacWrite disk back, "Send $25 for shipping and handling". Seems to me that a money-back guarantee is a money-back guarantee, period. I think they probably just need a bit of yelling at. While we are on the subject of sleaziness, did you notice that ALS nowhere mentions the fact that by sending them your MacWrite disk, you forfeit the right to run MacWrite at anytime in the future? That's your MASTER DISK you are sending to them. They also don't want you to send the manual (not that you need a manual to run MacWrite :-)). Sleazy. peter ------------------------------ From: DWB (649) Subject: RE: Need help with LightSpeed C (Part II (Re: Msg 640) Date: 19-AUG 21:45 Programming Techniques The following code fragment works fine for me, assuming that XferName is a PString containing the name of the application to launch: Teleport() { SetVol((char *) 0, XferRN); Launch(0, XferName); } Oh, by the way, XferRN is the reference number of the drive containing the application to be launched. David ------------------------------ From: SPERRAZZA (659) Subject: RE: Need help with LightSpeed C (Part II (Re: Msg 637) Date: 23-AUG 21:43 Programming Techniques You are right. ResumeProcs don't seem to work with ID=26 errors. When I forced an address error, the resume button was highlighted. ------------------------------ From: RANDOM (650) Subject: RE: Aztec C future (Re: Msg 647) Date: 19-AUG 21:50 Tools for Developers Well, the Byte articles that mentioned Objective C seemed pretty positive, also (although when I went back and read the references carefully, you -could- interpret the comments as referring to a cross-compiler or cross-preprocessor than runs on a different machine). Maybe their sales department isn't communicating with their development force, or maybe they just want to keep people like me out of their hair until they are really ready to market it...I don't know. But here is a quote from the response I got to a letter I wrote enquiring about Objective C and MacApp: "At this time, we do not have firm plans to port to the Mac. Your name will be entered into our database, and you will be notified if we do release a Macintosh product." and it is signed Stacey A. Wildenberg, Sales Administrator. I don't know what the real story is. They don't say they -won't- port it, it just seems less definite than I originally believed. But people have told me they received very positive signals from people within PPI, so who knows? I was worried at first because I thought this was the only chance to interface C to MacApp, but now I can see that everybody and his brother is going to interface to it, so I'll have a choice, whether or not PPI decides to enter the Mac market (which I hope they do). -Dennis D. ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM (651) Subject: RE: Aztec C future (Re: Msg 625) Date: 19-AUG 22:08 Tools for Developers C+- is a C++ subset being developed at Apple. malloc() and free() aren't Memory Manager calls. I'm talking HLock() and stuff like that that you need all the time writing segmented DAs. ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM (652) Subject: RE: Aztec C future (Re: Msg 645) Date: 19-AUG 22:09 Tools for Developers Source level. You could type in C statements and it would execute them. I think Jim said that C+- would be a separate product, that would be available to current owners at a reasonable price (given the fact that Deathstar Corp. wants $50/copy). ------------------------------ From: PEABO (653) Subject: RE: Aztec C future (Re: Msg 650) Date: 19-AUG 22:11 Tools for Developers For whatever it's worth, here's the name of the guy: Kurt Schmucker Technical Director Productivity Products International, Inc. 27 Glen Road Sandy Hook, CT 06482 peter ------------------------------ From: MARSHG (654) Subject: SICN use Date: 20-AUG 19:20 Programming Techniques Can somebody point me to documentation on SICN resources. ResEdit and diskinfo use/support them but I can't find any documentation on their format or use. Any pointers would be appreciated. Marsh ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM (655) Subject: RE: SICN use (Re: Msg 654) Date: 20-AUG 22:03 Programming Techniques The fact that ResEdit supports them should be good enough documentation. I found out by creating one and looking at it. They're like ICN#s; don't remember the exact size right now but I think it's 16x16. If you need it, I'll send my plotSICN routine from DiskInfo. ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM (657) Subject: RE: SICN use (Re: Msg 654) Date: 21-AUG 23:48 Programming Techniques PlotSICN(sicnRect,sicn,sicnNum) Rect *sicnRect; Handle sicn; word sicnNum; { BitMap sicnBits; /* Make sure SICN is there */ LoadResource(sicn); /* Set up the bit map */ sicnBits.rowBytes = 2; sicnBits.bounds.top = sicnBits.bounds.left = 0; sicnBits.bounds.bottom = sicnBits.bounds.right = 16; sicnBits.baseAddr = *sicn + (sicnNum * 32); /* Copy in the sicn */ CopyBits(&sicnBits,&Dp->dCtlWindow->portBits, &sicnBits.bounds,sicnRect,srcCopy,NIL); } ------------------------------ From: PEABO (656) Subject: Undo in a famous editor Date: 21-AUG 19:37 Tools for Developers I was just looking at the MDS 2.0 Upgrade order form that arrived last week, and I see that it talks about "an improved editor that supports Undo and up to 9 windows". peter ------------------------------ From: TJPOWDERLY (660) Subject: trap vectors Date: 24-AUG 14:48 Programming Techniques TJPOWDELRY here, looking for addresses pointed to by trap vectors on the old 128k macs. These vectors are what is often called 'A' traps, a special feature of the 68000. When the processor finds the high nibble to be 1010, it can handle it specially. Macs use a vector table, these vectors point into the $400000- $4ffffff range and THESE addresses are what I'm looking for. I need printed form or real ASCII textfiles. Is there a book that contains them? Looking in the roms is useless, the 68000 code set is so full that garbage will disassemble to look like viable code! Just dumped 50$ on two 'tech' refs, does INSIDE MAC tell me what I need? regards tjp ------------------------------ From: PEABO (661) Subject: RE: trap vectors (Re: Msg 660) Date: 24-AUG 18:41 Programming Techniques Apple discourages people from trying to find out the addresses of trap routines, because the addresses change from one ROM to another, and also can be overridden by patch code when the system boots (to correct errors in the ROM). What are you trying to accomplish? Maybe there's a more direct way to find out what you need to know. peter ------------------------------ From: JIMH (662) Subject: RE: trap vectors (Re: Msg 661) Date: 24-AUG 18:59 Programming Techniques Peter, Scott Knaster mentions in his book one valid way to do it is to use gettrapaddress to get the trap address at run time then jump directly to the trap. AS he says Apple guarantees this address wont change while your program is running. I wrot e an article on it for apple dayton newsletter last night. all ya gotta do is get the address and write new glue routines to take it as an argument and call the trap routine at that address. what follows is the glue for bittst and bitset. XDef NoTrapBitTst XDef NoTrapBitSet .TRAP _Debugger $A9FF ;Function NoTrapBitTst(BytePtr:Ptr;BitNumber:LongInt,TrapAddress): Boolean; NoTrapBitTst Move.L 4(SP),A0 Move.L (SP)+,(SP) JMP (A0) ;Procedure BitSet(TrapAddress,BytePtr:Ptr;BitNumber:LongInt); NoTrapBitSet Move.L 4(SP),A0 Move.L (SP)+,(SP) JMP (A0) End except my pascal calls are wrong i just noticed the trap address is moved to tha last arguement so it can be lifted off the stack without moving anything else. In a small test routine that calls bittst 10,000 times the dispach table call takes 54 ti cks while the nondispach version takes 38. a small improvement but sometimes worthwhile. I have know people to do a lot more conviluted things to save less time. jim ------------------------------ From: PEABO (663) Subject: RE: trap vectors (Re: Msg 662) Date: 24-AUG 20:44 Programming Techniques That's certainly a valid way to get the address (and a good reason to do so in a time critical environment). I wasn't sure why TJPOWDERLY needed the trap addresses, but it sounded like he was looking for a document that you might call "Inside Macintosh ROM", which doesn't exist. If it turns out that he really wants to know how the ROM works, I'll point him in the direction of MacNosy. peter ------------------------------ From: MACLAIRD (666) Subject: RE: trap vectors (Re: Msg 660) Date: 25-AUG 04:17 Programming Techniques The Trap table is indeed documented in Inside Macintosh! see page I-87. _Also_ _note_: with GetTrapAddress and SetTrapAddress you can do all the patching you want to in a portable manner. The trap table itself was packed into a 15-bit shifted offset table in a futile but vainglorious attempt to conserve RAM in the 128K (nay, do we hear 64K?) Mac. The Macintosh Plus, as documented somewhere (probably Tech Notes 57 & 57a), has an _unpacked_ trap table, with twice(?) as many entries. There are some Public Domain programs, especially DA's, which will display the addresses of the Traps on 128K or 512K Macs. I'm sure I could dig one out and Delphi EMail it to you if you wanted. _Laird ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM (667) Subject: Memory Manager glue in Aztec C Date: 26-AUG 00:12 Tools for Developers Lofty, Here's the glue I keep forgetting to send you. It doesn't save to memerr (which was a global with an A5 offset). #asm public BlockMove_ BlockMove_: move.l 4(SP),A0 move.l 8(SP),A1 move.l 12(SP),D0 dc.w $a02e ;_BlockMove rts public HLock_ HLock_: move.l 4(SP),A0 dc.w $a029 ;_HLock rts public HUnlock_ HUnlock_: move.l 4(SP),A0 dc.w $a02a ;_HUnlock rts #endasm ------------------------------ End of Delphi Mac Digest ************************ -------