SHULMAN@RED.RUTGERS.EDU (Jeffrey Shulman) (09/12/86)
Delphi Mac Digest Thursday, 11 September 1986 Volume 2 : Issue 44
Today's Topics:
RE: Sector Tags (Re: Msg 12498) (4 messages)
Copy Perversion Hall of Shame (9 messages)
quickdraw 3-d (2 messages)
cable problems
RE: TML Pascal and MacIsh Stuff
Apple Announcements
NL ARTICLES WANTED!
RE: Radius FPD (Re: Msg 12544)
RE: Desk Accessory Idea... (2 messages)
RE: DeskTop Publishing Expo (Re: Msg 12607)
Fullpaint default fonts
DataFrame, the first impression. (3 messages)
Switcher/MacWrite/new ROMs
HyperDrive 2000 update
carrier detect (2 messages)
MAC SNAP MEM.
Prologs for the Mac (2 messages)
Font/DA mover problem
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From: DWB (12564)
Subject: RE: Sector Tags (Re: Msg 12498)
Date: 7-SEP-23:06: MUGS Online
To: Werner Uhrig <CMP.werner@r20.utexas.edu) Subject: my Micah-Drive crashed -
no file-tags ....
Just to play the devil's advocate, just as the MicahDrive 30 AT and XT
will support file tags, so will the announced an soon to be shipping
DataFrame 20 XP.
David
------------------------------
From: BRECHER (12602)
Subject: RE: Sector Tags (Re: Msg 12564)
Date: 9-SEP-03:58: MUGS Online
Just to add devilish confusion, it turns out that very recently Apple
Engineering made a policy decision on sector tags in future disk and software
products -- namely, nix -- which might cause MICAH to drop tags from the 30 AT
and XTs. Stay tuned...
------------------------------
From: DWB (12604)
Subject: RE: Sector Tags (Re: Msg 12602)
Date: 9-SEP-04:05: MUGS Online
Why would they make a decision like that? Yes, it adds compatibility with the
rest of the world, but you also lose some robustness in the file system. Oh
well...
David
------------------------------
From: PEABO (12635)
Subject: RE: Sector Tags (Re: Msg 12604)
Date: 9-SEP-23:59: MUGS Online
Robustness in the file system is only useful if something takes
advantage of it. Sector tags per se don't do a thing for the file
system. While it's true that Fedit is able to scavenge an MFS disk,
Fedit's ability to do this is in no part due to Apple's decision to
create a scavenger. It is only after we all waited for Apple to fail
to release a scavenger that Fedit was developed.
I wonder if Apple has come to the conclusion that tags are a nice idea but not
worth the effort?
peter
------------------------------
From: SOUTH (12576)
Subject: Copy Perversion Hall of Shame
Date: 8-SEP-05:47: Bugs & Features
I've decided to start a new feature in The Mouse Times: the Copy Perversion
Hall of Shame. I don't like it, and I think companies that do this to their
customers deserve as much negative publicity as possible.
One type of program believes that anyone who develops Mac software is
dishonest. FullPaint did this in the first version -- if you had a
debugger installed, they'd reboot the system.
Another type of program is either extremely inconsiderate, or does such strange
things to achieve its protection that they don't want you to be able to quit.
Activision's Shanghai is an example of a program that insists on rebooting when
it's over. As we hard disk owners know, this means a time-consuming rebuild of
the HFS data structures.
Since I only use one copy perverted program, I'd like to solicit your
input as to who's the most obnoxious copy perverter. If you want
anonymity, you can use electronic mail. Here's your chance to air
your horror stories and gripes. The column will be posted to the MUGs
Online database after publication, and maybe I can get a copy sent to
the guilty publishers.
------------------------------
From: MCOHEN (12581)
Subject: RE: Copy Perversion Hall of Shame (Re: Msg 12576)
Date: 8-SEP-19:18: Bugs & Features
The most obnoxious I've found are Opcode's new stuff and almost anything from
Electronic Arts (such as DMCS). Opcode's new editor/librarian does the usual
stuff like crashing in strange ways if the debugger is installed (it manages to
REMOVE TMON and continue normally in many cases). Their HD install crashed on
me, leaving a bad copy installed & a master that would no longer be recognized
(they eventually replaced the disk, but now that I wrote my own editor I never
touch theirs).
DMCS is more obnoxious than most because it doesn't even
bother asking you to insert the original - it simply crashes if the
original disk isn't in the drive.
------------------------------
From: JOHNCRANE (12583)
Subject: RE: Copy Perversion Hall of Shame (Re: Msg 12576)
Date: 8-SEP-20:09: Bugs & Features
David, there are some nasty CP in a lot of games, but for serious
software my vote goes to Provue's OverVUE. After you buy the program
you find out to get it on a hard disk you have to pay them another 10
bucks. -John
------------------------------
From: JOHNCRANE (12585)
Subject: RE: Copy Perversion Hall of Shame (Re: Msg 12583)
Date: 8-SEP-20:14: Bugs & Features
Perhaps the cutest was a game that said something like this is an illegal copy.
It will self-destruct in ten seconds. Please clear the room. Ten. Nine.
Eight....
------------------------------
From: MOUSEKETEER (12588)
Subject: RE: Copy Perversion Hall of Shame (Re: Msg 12585)
Date: 8-SEP-20:43: Bugs & Features
I've tried my best to avoid Copy Perverted software, but I have a few around.
My own gripe is Think Educational Software for MacEdgeII, a program for drills
in math, etc. I would think that a program which is best used by sitting the
kid in front of the Mac for an hour or so to fend for himself would be easily
backed up. Kids do the darndest things, after all, and can erase a disk at
twenty feet by looking at it sideways. This sucker is so rigged, though, that
making a copy is very difficult (i.e. you need H D Utility), and the program
still only gives you the choice to "Eject" rather than "Quit", meaning a full
shutdown.
I guess you have to look at it from their standpoint, though. I expect there
are millions of little kids out there with Macs...."Hey, Bobby, wanna copy of
this nifty math study program? Boy, talk about fun!"
;-)
Alf
P.S. While we are on the subject, I noted today in the GMUGazette (St. Louis
Gateway Area Mac Users Group) that after reprinting an article title "Freeing
Excel" which gave the patch for a particular MS program, it was pointed out
to them that "to defeat copy protection, even for registered owners, is
illegal."
That Bill Gates! What a card!
------------------------------
From: INC (12592)
Subject: RE: Copy Perversion Hall of Shame (Re: Msg 12583)
Date: 8-SEP-22:21: Bugs & Features
Is that new? I thought OverVue took out ALL copy protection last year....
------------------------------
From: BMUG (12597)
Subject: RE: Copy Perversion Hall of Shame (Re: Msg 12592)
Date: 9-SEP-02:37: Bugs & Features
Yes, OverVUE has removed copy protection. They still require a slightly funny
procedure to copy the files to disk, but they document that.
-- Raines Cohen / Team BMUG
------------------------------
From: DWB (12601)
Subject: RE: Copy Perversion Hall of Shame (Re: Msg 12576)
Date: 9-SEP-03:56: Bugs & Features
Just got a copy of Strategic Conquest by PBI. It has a CP scheme which doesn't
work for an external 800K drive. Works fine in the internal 800K drive though.
When it detects an "illegal" copy it just cranks up the skill level to
"unbeatable" and cheats like hell. All this with out telling you the copy is
illegal. Frustrated the hell out of me the first 3 or 4 games I played at the
easiest level. Couldn't even come close to beating the damn thing. Then I
tried the internal drive and it's a piece of cake up to about 4 or so and I
haven't tried past there.
Anybody got a patch for Strategic Conquest? It could really be a fun game if I
could load it onto my hard disk...
David
------------------------------
From: SAMURAICAT (12677)
Subject: RE: Copy Perversion Hall of Shame (Re: Msg 12601)
Date: 11-SEP 06:26 Bugs & Features
Rogue by Epyx does something similar to this. On copies, it plays a
very loaded game, then at end-of-game gives the player a tombstone
reading: So-and-so, killed by copy protection (and of course doesn't
save the score).
I've actually seen this only on the Amiga, but hearsay has it for the Mac as
well.
:- Ben.
------------------------------
From: JIMH (12589)
Subject: quickdraw 3-d
Date: 8-SEP-20:53: Programming
Anyone know where i can get my hands on some decent (or evan indecent)
documentation for the quickdraw 3-d lib that apple distributes? jim
------------------------------
From: BMUG (12598)
Subject: RE: quickdraw 3-d (Re: Msg 12589)
Date: 9-SEP-02:39: Programming
The Lightspeed Pascal manual contains a listing of the PROCEDURE and FUNCTION
stubs of the 3-d library, listing the parameters and result types. That's a
start, at least!
-- Raines / Team BMUG
------------------------------
From: JIMH (12590)
Subject: cable problems
Date: 8-SEP-20:57: Telecommunicating
I am trying to hook our puck and elmer mainframe to a mac direct connect. mac
runs Red ryder. PE uses DTR/CTS protocal (i think thats how ya say it) rather
than control s/q that the dec machines use. i can not get them to talk! get
various types o f beeps ect depending on how we wire the cable. oh yea its a
plus, but we are building a db9 to db25 patch cable and using one of apples
universal adapters. we didnt have any problems talking to PE with our old Lisa
running lisaterminal, however ca n not get + to talk. anyone got any words of
wisdom to help me out!! please!!!! thanks jim
------------------------------
From: DDUNHAM (12612)
Subject: RE: TML Pascal and MacIsh Stuff
Date: 9-SEP-09:03: Network Digests
> From: bill@hao.UUCP (Bill Roberts)
> Subject: TML Pascal and MacIsh Stuff
> 2) How can I turn a MacPaint file into a PICT resource? And then read
> in this resource and display the picture in a grafport (i.e. window).
Get the MacPaint image into the clipboard. All Macs come with a nifty utility
to turn clipboard data into resources; it's called Scrapbook. Once the PICT
resource is in the Scrapbook file, you can use ResEdit to copy it into your own
resource file. Then do a GetPicture() and DrawPicture() on it.
David Dunham "If voting could change the system, it would be illegal. If
Maitreya Design not voting could change the system, it would be be illegal."
------------------------------
From: BMUG (12599)
Subject: Apple Announcements
Date: 9-SEP-02:44: Hardware & Peripherals
A couple of BMUG'gers got together tonite and put together the rumors that have
been heard about this EIGHT MEGABYTE Hard Disk that Apple was allegedly coming
out with (according to InfoWorld) and something else that had been seen at
Apple, to determine:
Apple will be announcing, within two weeks (along with another dozen
products or so):
An EIGHT MEGABYTE SCSI Non-volatile RAMdisk, to work with the Mac+ & //GS!
We've also heard that Apple has figured out how to get in the news
EVERY day.... by rolling out a DIFFERENT new product during each day
of this EXECUTIVE BRIEFING week next week.
Many Delphites are invited to the different briefings in different cities, so
I'm sure we'll get reports from all over.
-- Raines / Team BMUG
------------------------------
From: BMUG (12600)
Subject: NL ARTICLES WANTED!
Date: 9-SEP-02:56: MUGS Online
DEADLINE: SEPTEMBER 30! DEADLINE: SEPTEMBER 30! Write now!
The BMUG Fall 1986 Newsletter is underway, and we need YOUR articles!
We expect this newsletter to be similar in size to previous issues, so
we need LOTS of quality material to fill it out. We are looking for
articles on almost ANY topic dealing with computing in general, from
beginning tutorials on subjects that should be obvious (but aren't) to
tips for hackers and code segments, comparisons of development
systems, and so on. We prefer articles with a lasting reference
value, rather than some commentary on the current version of program
x. Humorous material and illustrations are also appreciated; we
promise to give PROPER ILLUSTRATION CREDIT, something we did not quite
do in the previous newsletter.
We prefer articles in MacWrite documents, with illustrations SEPARATELY in
MacDraw or MacPaint format. We recommend calling the BMUG office at (415)
549-BMUG to find out if
we're interested in a particular topic or whether we already have 5 people
writing that particular article.
All contributors whose submissions are accepted and printed in the Newsletter
will receive a free 1 semester membership in BMUG (or an extension to their
current membership). All submissions become the property of BMUG, unless you
place a copyright notice in your article, in which case you retain all rights
(but grant BMUG the rights of 1st serial publication, on-line publication, and
book form publication). [ The above is subject to negotiation. ] We WILL
accept articles that have appeared in other magazines and newsletters, so long
as we think they are appropriate, and so long as the article is not restricted.
The best (safest) way to submit articles is to mail them to:
Fall '86 Newsletter Submission
BMUG
1442A Walnut #62
Berkeley, CA 94709
but, if you wish, you can upload them and DMAIL them to BMUG.
Be sure to write your name, address, and phone# on the disk label!
-- Raines Cohen / Team BMUG
------------------------------
From: DDUNHAM (12610)
Subject: RE: Radius FPD (Re: Msg 12544)
Date: 9-SEP-09:02: Hardware & Peripherals
I thought the main reason the Radius FPD was not compatible with clip-on
upgrades is that Radius wants to be able to offer their 1-year warranty without
having to engage in a finger-pointing exercise if something goes wrong in a
twice-upgraded Mac. Secondary reason is that Burrell has a low opinion of some
clip-on upgrades.
------------------------------
From: NAKMAN (12618)
Subject: RE: Desk Accessory Idea...
Date: 9-SEP-20:24: Network Digests
To: "Bob Soron" <Mly.G.Pogo%OZ.AI.MIT.EDU@XX.LCS.MIT.EDU>
Subject: Desk Accessory Idea...
Bob -
There is a handy little FKEY that comes with LightSpeed Pascal that will
insert {} marks around a section of text in any program, so it would
seem like a simple mod would be all that is necessary to change it to
> ...
Any LS Pascal programmers out there?
-- Raines Cohen / BMUG
------------------------------
From: JIMH (12641)
Subject: RE: Desk Accessory Idea...
Date: 10-SEP 01:14 Network Digests
The method used in that fkey is a good one for getting around messing with a
DA's data. it is to cut it to the clipboard then run this fkey which mods the
clipboad then paste it back in your file. jim
------------------------------
From: BMUG (12626)
Subject: RE: DeskTop Publishing Expo (Re: Msg 12607)
Date: 9-SEP-21:46: Hardware & Peripherals
Dave,
But as far as I can tell, WriteNow has a few flaws:
1. It doesn't do decimal tabs (or did I miss 'em?).
2. It locks you in to a specific number of columns for a whole document.
3. It doesn't move footnotes to endnotes (which I need) unless I missed it.
These flaws are fatal enough to make other in-the-works babies hopefuls for me.
Linda Team BMUG
------------------------------
From: PIZZAMAN (12620)
Subject: Fullpaint default fonts
Date: 9-SEP-20:36: Bugs & Features
Just loaded the latest version of fullpaint onto my HD-20. Was dissappointed to
find that it defaulted to the upper-most font on the menu, which happened to be
Boise on my hard disk system. This is not my choice of default. How come it
doesn't default to Geneva like a good Mac software program should. Is there
anyway to correct this? Barry
------------------------------
From: INC (12621)
Subject: DataFrame, the first impression.
Date: 9-SEP-20:50: Hardware & Peripherals
Well got the DataFrame 20 in the mail today and so far, it seems _real_ slick.
Except for the screw that was loose and shaking around inside (really!), I've
had no problems. I heard, via Ric, that this loose screw problem is popular.
Anyone else have it or know where it belongs?? SuperMac was unavailable for
comment. (No one answered the phone...)
It seems real fast (it's not the XP version btw) and not too noisy.
I'll keep everyone posted if anything turns up with the screw. (Alf, no loose
screw jokes, please. :-> )
[BTW, is that Spooler on here somewhere??)
Josh
MacInTouch
------------------------------
From: MOUSEKETEER (12666)
Subject: RE: DataFrame, the first impression. (Re: Msg 12664)
Date: 10-SEP 22:15 Hardware & Peripherals
Since the Subject for this thread is still "DataFrame, the first impression",
it looks like a handy place to hang this note. My DataFrame 20, around 30 days
old, make it's second "ratchet" noise yesterday just as I had chosen to print
a letter out. The drive just made an odd "grind" noise, and the Mac screen
went to a very strange moire pattern and froze. Shutting everything down
seemed to fix whatever happened, except of course that my letter (Word) was
ozoned. Attempt to use Word Rescue only brought up a previous letter I had
saved. I'm starting to look at the DataFrame with a wary eye.
Alf
------------------------------
From: INC (12679)
Subject: RE: DataFrame, the first impression. (Re: Msg 12666)
Date: 11-SEP 07:59 Hardware & Peripherals
Have you called them? (SuperMac) I'd be interested to hear their
support answer.
josh
------------------------------
From: NAKMAN (12623)
Subject: Switcher/MacWrite/new ROMs
Date: 9-SEP-21:08: Bugs & Features
A BMUG member has reported problems using the following configuration:
>> Any Switcher > 4.0 (up to the latest, 5.0Bn)
>> MacWrite 4.5
>> Mac+ or 512e (i.e. 128K ROM's)
>> Giving MacWrite 200K or less
>> Turning on "Save Screens"
Symptom:
When you go to save, the file starts saving, but hangs.
My idea:
MacWrite used to have 180K as the "preferred" amount of elbow room.
Saving screens with Switcher eats up some RAM; When you do a "Save
as..." under HFS, the dialog box has to read in a whole lot of
directory to show the existing file and folder names, eating up
additional memory. Perhaps this pushes MacWrite beyond the limit of
how much free space it needs to save.
solution:
Wait for Apple to fix it, or give MacWrite more memory, or use the old ROMs, or
use the old MacWrite, or use some other Word Processor, or don't use Switcher,
or take a vacation from Word Processing.
-- Raines
------------------------------
From: MACINTOUCH (12634)
Subject: HyperDrive 2000 update
Date: 9-SEP-23:19: Hardware & Peripherals
It turns out that the folks at GCC read the Delphi digests via Usenet
or Arpanet I guess you can post comments you'd like to get across if
calling the phone number is too aggrivating.
Anyway, the very kind Elena Gonzales of GCC is trying to find out what
the exact situation is with TOPS on the Hyper2000, and we're supposed
to get another unit with _128K_ ROMs. I'll be posting the results as
we go along.
Ric
------------------------------
From: JIMH (744)
Subject: carrier detect
Date: 10-SEP 21:41 Current Discussions
Peter, how would i go about doing carrier detect for a hayes modem from the mac
serial ports? jim ps i am not working on a terminal program (grin)
------------------------------
From: PEABO (745)
Subject: RE: carrier detect (Re: Msg 744)
Date: 10-SEP 23:49 Current Discussions
Carrier is on pin 8 of the RS-232 cable (and something else on the minicircular
8 connector, see the tech notes). A lot of "smart" modems have the same signal
on cariier deetct as on clear to send (pin 5). Hope that helps a bit.
peter
------------------------------
From: SYNTHONY (12667)
Subject: MAC SNAP MEM.
Date: 10-SEP 23:49 Hardware & Peripherals
I received a Mac Snap memory expansion last week and am having
problems. I was finally upgrading my last Mac (had one sitting around
128K), and ordered a 1.5 Meg board. The connectors used in the board
(that sits on top of the Mac board) seats on top of the original chips
and makes the connections on the sides of the socketed chips. My
techs found that at least 3 (sometimes more) connections PER CHIP were
not happening! A call to Mac Snap said that some of the early 128K
Macs had some chips that were SMALLER in physical size... Any
comments??
Bill
------------------------------
From: IVANOVIC (12668)
Subject: Prologs for the Mac
Date: 11-SEP 00:21 Programming
I'd like to learn Prolog, and so Ive kept my eyes open for Prologs for the
Mac. I know of four: (1) ExperTelligences outrageously expensive version, (2)
Personal Prolog from Optimized Systems Software (OSS), (3) Chalcedonys Prolog/m
and (4) Advanced A.I. Systems Prolog.
I am interested in any comments you may have about these Prologs (or any
others for the Mac) because, even though I am well versed in the Macintosh, I
have virtually no knowledge of the language Prolog. I dont know what features
are essential, which ones are icing on the cake, nor which "features" are to be
avoided like the plague. I'd like to hear from you.
ExperTelligence's Prolog is a French implementation (i.e. Marseilles syntax),
complete with a Mac-ish interface. I think it's an interpreter (but I could be
wrong.) I don't know about access to the Toolbox or to Quickdraw. If prior
experience with ExperTelligence is any guide, the product will ultimately be a
professional, but pricey one. It's $495!!!
OSS's ad (in the June 1986 issue of MacTutor) features a performance
comparison in which (surprise, surprise) they do better than their competition,
various IBM PC Prologs. They claim a "standard Macintosh interface" for their
up to 7 window editor and "extensive interface to the Macintosh ToolBox."
Notice that it didn't say "complete." OSS claims that "most forms" of both the
Marseilles and the Edinburgh syntax are supported. It is an interpreter. The
"Special Introductory Offer" (no expiration date!) is a reasonable $75.
In the same issue of MacTutor is an ad by Chalcedony advertising Prolog/m.
This might be a port from their IBM PC version, Prolog/i which I seem to
remember from a while back. It is not, however, one of the Prologs that OSS
mentions in their ad. Edinburgh syntax, floating point and math functions
(whatever that means) are supported. A complete expert system, a collection of
subroutines (called Toolbox - is this the Macintosh Toolbox or just a nifty set
of Prolog tools?) and a collection of learning games and puzzles are also
available. The Prolog interpreter is $100, while the others are $50, $30 and
$30 respectively. I am not sure that it is shipping.
AAIS advertised their Prolog in the September 1986 issue of
MacTutor. It is compatible with DEC-20 Prolog, C-Prolog and Quintus
Prolog. That means (I called up and asked) that 98% of the
applications run without modifications, and that the changes which
have to be done are "obvious and minor." It comes with a database
system, a pretty printer, and an "extensive, interactive" debugger.
"Several hundred other built-in functions and features" are also
included. Syntax is Edinburgh and Macintosh graphics are supported.
No Toolbox support yet, but in the next version. It is an interpreter
(compiler in the future.) The person I talked to claimed that their
performance was considerably better that OSS's. Price is $150. First
ship is scheduled for September 20th.
Right now, I'm tending toward the AAIS version. It seems the most complete,
if in fact it is compatible with the "standard" Prologs like DEC-20 or Quintus,
and it has a supposedly good debugger (that I'm sure I'll desperately need!)
Has anyone had experience with any of these?
Advanced A.I. Systems, Inc. P.O. Box 39-0360 Mountain View , CA 94039 (415)
961-1121
Chalcedony Software, Inc. 5580 La Jolla Blvd. Suite 126 D La Jolla, CA 92037 (
619) 483-8513 orders: 1-800-621-0852, ext 468
Optimized Systems Software, Inc. 1221 B Kentwood Ave. San Jose, CA 95129 (408)
446-3099
------------------------------
From: PEABO (12669)
Subject: RE: Prologs for the Mac (Re: Msg 12668)
Date: 11-SEP 00:37 Programming
Although Turbo Prolog is not available for the Mac (right now), you might enjoy
the article about it that appears in the September issue of Dr. Dobbs.
peter
------------------------------
From: DSACHS (746)
Subject: Font/DA mover problem
Date: 10-SEP 23:50 Inside Mac
The Font/DA mover has a ridiculously low limit on the number of fonts
that can be put in a file. Although inside mac claims that the new
ROMS will support thousands of fonts in the System file, Font/Da mover
refused to add more fonts when I reached approximately 200 sizes of 64
fonts. It also created a few dangling FONT resources. While it is
possible to use the Resource Editor to add more fonts, most of the
Fonts I am using are LaserWriter fonts, which require extensive modst
to the FOND resources.
------------------------------
End of Delphi Mac Digest
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