INFO-MAC-REQUEST@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA (Moderator David Gelphman...) (10/10/86)
INFO-MAC Digest Thursday, 9 Oct 1986 Volume 4 : Issue 129
Today's Topics:
Heap Fragmentation Problem
MDS v2.0 Update Bug
TML 2.0 and MacApp
Re: Lightspeed Products (RAMSDOpen)
Delphi Mac Digest V2 #50
Usenet Mac Digest V2 #82
Re: power supplies and fans
Re: Fans - Con
RE: Macs and Fans
800K flat file system?
More on Chinese WP on Mac (FeiMa)
Asian Languages on the Mac
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 86 15:57 EDT
From: JDM%SMVL%rca.com@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA
Subject: Heap Fragmentation Problem
Ok, so I went out and got Knaster's book. More importantly, I read
(or so I think I read) Knaster's book. It's probably the most helpful
thing I've read to date on writing Macintosh code. But I still got
this problem.... maybe you do too.
My program (written using Lightspeed Pascal) continuously bombs
with an error 25, out of memory. A quick look at the heap using TMON
shows what the problem is. Theres a non relocatable block sitting
about 1/3 the way down stopping the allocation of any of the free
space past it. Well, if I've followed Scott's advice, I shouldn't have
that problem cause I would have been a good memory manager.
Well I have followed Scott's advice about program segmentation and
window management and the like, and still, theres this non relocatable
block driving a spike 1/3 the way down the heap. The bad part is,
the block is CODE 1. Certainly, you don't want to move CODE 1, do you?
Scott says you don't.
My heap looks EXACTLY like Figure 4-5 in Knaster. Does anyone know
what can be done to stop CODE 1 from begin placed in the middle
of the heap? I've called MaxApplZone;, but I assume that has to be called
from CODE 1, which is allready fragmenting the heap by the time it's called.
Any Ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Joe jdm%smvl%rca.com@csnet-relay.ARPA
------------------------------
Date: 9 Oct 86 01:12:09 EDT
From: Duane.Williams@k.cs.cmu.edu
Subject: MDS v2.0 Update Bug
The default search paths defined in HFS.Paths in Apple's new MDS Version 2.0
update are incomplete. So, if you arrange your files in the recommended
manner and then try to build the Window example using Window.Job, the
process will fail when RMaker tries to INCLUDE Window.code. To fix the
problem, you need to edit HFS.Paths, adding paths for RMaker_Include, and,
while you're at it, you might as well add the missing paths for RMaker_Source,
RSRC_File, and PROC_File. The path descriptions are given in the
documentation on page 58.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 86 23:30 CDT
From: <MAX%TAMLSR.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU>
Subject: TML 2.0 and MacApp
First, an apology. In my previous message about MacApp Developer's
Association, I inadvertently list my address as 'MAX@LSR.BITNET'. It is
actually 'MAX@TAMLSR.BITNET', as you can probably tell from the header
on this message. I guess being in AggieLand is taking its toll....
Anyway, MacApp is currently being ported to TML 2.0 by Paul Snively, and
probably some others. As soon as it is available, I'll post a message
giving price info and such.
Greg Marriott "...what an Aggie..."
The MacHax(tm) Group
---
Disclaimer: I plead the 5th...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 86 18:27:25 EST
From: munnari!rpepping.oz!RAY@seismo.CSS.GOV
Subject: Fonts on Kermit 0.8(34)
Please could someone send me a message on how to enlarge the font used
within Kermit for communication with a VAX. I have tried various
approaches with Resedit without success. The VT-100 & VT-100 Bold fonts
built into Kermit are hard to look at all day for general interaction
work with a Vax 11/750. Something like Geneva 10 would make the eye
strain a little less. I would appreciate it if someone could post this
to the net so I can ease the old "peepers". Many thanks.
Raymond Haynes, CSIRO Division of Radiophysics, Mail: P.O. Box 76,
Epping, NSW, 2121, Australia
ACSNET: ray@rpepping.oz
Internet:ray%rpepping.oz@Seismo.CSS.GOV UUCP:
{seismo,hplabs,mcvax,ukc,nttlab}!munnari!rpepping.oz!ray
Telephone:
Aust.(02) 868 0222 Telex: AA26230 ASTRO
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 86 18:06:15 mdt
From: dlc%a@LANL.ARPA (Dale Carstensen)
Subject: Re: Lightspeed Products (RAMSDOpen)
This may not be the cause of the problem described about RAMSDOpen, but it
is likely enough that I thought I should mention it. Several of the
"software supplements" from Apple have had copies of various version of the
RAM serial driver, in a file named SERD, and Manx distributes SERD with
Aztec C. It may be that Think does not have an agreement with Apple to
distribute SERD, or that you haven't put the SERD file that comes with
the Lightspeed product in the right place for RAMSDOpen to find it.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 86 20:49:12 EDT
From: Jeffrey Shulman <SHULMAN@RED.RUTGERS.EDU>
Subject: Delphi Mac Digest V2 #50
Delphi Mac Digest Thursday, 9 October 1986 Volume 2 : Issue 50
Today's Topics:
RE: Levco pricing exorbitant
RE: Appletalk Connectors (2 messages)
RE: old Lightspeed C bugs
RE: Usenet Mac Digest V2 #80 (Re: Msg 13410)
Hyper 2000 compatibility
Prodigy 4 compatibility (4 messages)
Andy & Servant
Non-SCSI Hard Drives
ResFinder
RE: another 800K dies (Re: Msg 13424) (2 messages)
RE: Medical systems/where are you? (Re: Msg 13092) (3 messages)
RE: HELP: Tecmar disk/Mac+ ROMs
JumpStart'ing the Finder
data transfer (2 messages)
Versions in the night... (3 messages)
GUIDE (Hypertext) mini-review (3 messages)
Beep on startup (4 messages)
DataFrame spooler problems..
MICAH External 30 Meg (4 messages)
RE: Limelight computer projection system
RMaker 2.0 problem
cheap Mac 68020
medical systems/where are you?
Radius FPD
Microsoft FORTRAN question
[ archived as
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>DELPHIV2-50.ARC
DAVEG
]
------------------------------
Date: 9 Oct 86 09:25:41 EDT
From: Jeffrey Shulman <SHULMAN@RED.RUTGERS.EDU>
Subject: Usenet Mac Digest V2 #82
Usenet Mac Digest Thursday, 9 October 1986 Volume 2 : Issue 82
Re: Fullpaint. Wonderful product, wond
Editable text items in Dialogs
Doug Clapps Word Tools
Using a Mac+ with FPD for Serious tech. WP
Re: other Modula-2's
Non-ejectable volumes
FakeAlert.c - egg on face
Problem with SCSI HD
AppleTalk for Z8000 request
fans and macs
Re: Editable text items in Dialogs
MacWrite document problem
Re: ETH Modula2 Single Pass (how to access the tool-box)
Query: 3.5S 20Meg SCSI-drive from Supra at $799 list
Re: fans and macs
Re: fans and macs
Query about Microsoft MacFORTRAN
Print Selection... menu item in editors and other applications
Re: Fullpaint. Won [really microsoft flames redux]
Re: Apple Johnathon
Re: Dataframe 20 and killer DA's
Serial Port
[ archvied as
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>USENETV2-82.ARC
DAVEG
]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 86 18:16:52 mdt
From: dlc%a@LANL.ARPA (Dale Carstensen)
Subject: Re: power supplies and fans
Before I installed Macs-a-Million from Sophisticated Circuits with its
piezo "fan," my Mac would run indefinitely while I was typing and using
the mouse, but unattended, it would surely die within 4 or 5 hours with
wierd patterns on the screen and clicks from the speaker. With the fan,
it has run up to 2 or 3 weeks at a time, only crashing when a program
started writing out of bounds, usually only involving "mouse freeze" as a
fatal symptom. At this altitude, there are not enough air molecules
passing by a convection-cooled, non-CMOS chip to cool it to operating
temperature, unless no power is applied to it. Period. DEC VT100s die,
HP264xs die, anything without a fan dies in a matter of hours, not days.
At sea level, such devices run for years, but fewer years than they would
run if they were cooler. The piezo fans are great, because they do move air,
and they are nearly silent.
I have lost a Micron Technology 256K memory chip about every 3 months,
however, despite the cooler environment. Maybe they were from a bad batch.
It is approaching 4 months since the third chip went, so maybe the
remainder have reached the flat part of the bathtub failure rate curve.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 86 10:13:21 edt
From: rs4u@andrew.cmu.edu (Richard Siegel)
Subject: Re: Fans - Con
I agree that fan noise is a problem, but it's a problem that can be beaten by
the proper choice of fan, and by a properly designed fan housing.
The amount of noise a fan makes is dependent on several things: the
size of the fan, the speed of the fan, the pitch of the fan blades, and the
type of fan. For example, the common "muffin" fan is an axial-flow fan; that
is, the air flow is parellel the the fan's axis of rotation. The problem with
muffin fans is that the motor and blade assembly is supported by struts to
the fan's housing, and there's a loud high-frequency spike of noise when a
fan blade passes a strut. This problem is much worse for larger fans and
higher rotation speeds, because the blades pass the struts at a much higher
speed for a fan that's a little larger.
If you choose a large fan with a high blade pitch and comparitively
low rotation speed, you'll have a fan which is reasonably effective, but is
also reasonably quiet.
The newer piezoelectric fans are completely silent, but they are not
very effective, they're internally mounted, and the lifetime of the blades is
not tested; remember that plastic fatigues, and if a blade breaks off in your
machine you're up the creek.
Another way to quiet a fan is to use a comparitively large box made
of a material that is more sound-absorbent than plastic or metal. I was
checking out the fan I used to make my fan-box assembly; it's a 3-inch muffin
fan, and I was also disturbed by its high-frequency whine. However, when I
mounted it in my box, which is made of quarter-inch corrugated cardboard, all
seams and joints sealed with cloth tape and RTV, the high-frequency spikes
disappeared for the most part, and I was left with a hum, consisting of
primarily low frequencies, with a little high-frequency noise, but not enough
to distract me; I found that I was easily able to tune out the noise.
I agree that if a machine runs reasonably cool, there's no real need
to add a fan, but there are a few problems: what defines "reasonably cool"?
Also, there's the old and well-founded argument that electronic equipment
will last longer if it's kept cooler.
--Rich
------------------------------
Date: 9 OCT 86 11:05-EDT
From: KURAS%BCVAX3.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
Subject: RE: Macs and Fans
I'd just like to add my two cents to the ongoing discussion about Macs and
heat. Although I personally have never had heat trouble with a Mac (128, 512
Plus, Hyper, whatever) I can see where some would. My advice would be to leave
well enough alone if you're not having problems. Like someone said, "If it ain't
broke, don't fix it." The risk of dust contamination and vibration, not to
mention the noise, seems to me to be great enough to make use of a fan as a
precautionary measure unattractive. A fan can be added easily enough if problems
do develop.
The Mac WAS designed for efficient convection cooling, (Trust the engineers!
They really DO know what they're doing) assuming sufficient space is left
around the sides and top. I would guess that an inch or two on each side
(especially the right side, since air flows in more freely there) and six
inches or so on the top are quite enough. If the top is blocked, problems are
likely to develop. These guidelines are spelled out quite clearly in the Mac's
manual. (Page 149 in the Mac Plus manual for the curious)
Remember that a convection cooled machine won't feel as cool as a fan cooled
one, but that doesn't mean that it's too hot. I believe the operating temp-
erature is supposed to fall in the 130 deg. Fahrenheit area. The specifications
of the Mac Plus allow it to be operated in an environment as hot as 104 deg. F.
It feels hot, yes, but unless it's cramped up, that's normal.
Finally, let me add an example from my own experience to emphasize my point
that fans are generally unnecessary. Boston College operates a public Macintosh
facility containing about 110 fanless Mac Plusses. These Macs are installed in
study carrels about three feet wide, without tops. The Macs have plenty of space
around them. They are used very heavily. Each Mac is in use more or less
continuously from 9 am to midnight seven days a week. The incidence of heat
related problems with these Macs is almost zero. So if you're having heat
problems, check yur installation. Chances are you can solve the problem without
a fan.
Pat Kuras
Boston College
<KURAS@BCVAX3.BITNET>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 86 08:44:27 ADT
From: PAUL%Acadia.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU (Paul Steele - Acadia
Subject: 800K flat file system?
I've been wracking my brains trying to figure out how to get the old
flat MFS file system on a 800K drive. Some people say I'm crazy but
I know I've seen it at least three times in the past on other people's
machines, and none of them was even aware they had done it. I've held
done option and command and shif and caps-lock but no luck. I know
HFS is better, but until software writers learn how to use HFS is a
logical manner MFS is often cleaner. I speaking of Lightspeed C and
all of their header files which must be in the root directory.
Please reply to me directly if anyone knows the answer - I don't ink
I'm crazy yet...
===> Paul@Acadia
[ note from moderator:
First of all it is easy to make a flat 800k volume. Just use
an old system 2.0 and finder 4.1 (I'm sure someone around has one)
and use ERASE DISK in the finder. You won't get the choice as
to whether you want single or DS. It will just do DS (800K) and since
the old system didn't know about HFS you will get a flat volume.
I think you can run LSC in a folder but you evidently need
all the include files in the SAME folder as LSC (not necessarily the
root). The update which is in the works and is reported to be out soon
evidently resolves this problem. DAVEG ]
------------------------------
Subject: More on Chinese WP on Mac (FeiMa)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 86 09:25:51 -0800
From: duggie@portia.stanford.edu
A few weeks ago Mr. Wu gave some folks here a demonstration of FeiMa. At that
time he mentioned that a stripped-down version of the program without the
Han typewriter (I believe it had only the pinyin and 'quick sketch' methods
besides table look up) was available for $195. The full version was at that
time still $595, and he mentioned nothing about the price going up.
Prof. Connolly (V4, #127) mentioned several methods including a 'radical
method', perhaps he is referring to the 'tsang-jie' entry method used in many
chinese computers from Taiwan. We were also told that there were 3000 main
and 3000 auxiliary characters. One can create needed characters 'on-the'fly'
ala fatbits and add them to a 600-character dictionary space set aside for
this. Unfortunately, one cannot create separate specialized 'dictionaries' and
load them into this space at will.
It looked pretty good, but I have no experience with it other than this
demonstration (and another 9 months ago). Mr. Conolly would be a better
reference on that. I am aware of no competition, either. When is someone
going to make a Chinese WP that is intelligent and tries to recognize words
and not just characters? EgWord for Japanese, I hear, is quite intelligent
about Japanese syntax and word use.
-- Doug Felt
duggie@portia.stanford.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 86 08:39:20 +0200
From: Tamir Weiner <UMFORTH%WEIZMANN.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Asian Languages on the Mac
I read with much interest of Herman Collins description of a Chinese
Word Processor on the Mac, and the company that produces similar stuff
for the IBM.
We are very interested in Japanese on the MacIntosh, instead of Chinese.
Do you or any reader of Info-Mac (a copy of this is going to the digest)
know of any products which allow Word Processing in Japanese on the Mac?
Note: I read awhile back in MacWorld of Apple making a "Japanese" Mac
which allows the adaption of software to Kanji. However it seemed to
be only available in Japan from Apple of Japan, and also there was no
indication that this system was actually an application for Word Processing,
rather it was a way to add Japanese character sets to the Mac and adapt
existing applications to the Japanese character sets quickly.
Thanks for any leads anyone out there can supply regarding Japanese on
the Mac. By the way, the reason my company is interested, is that we have
extensive documentation (hundreds of pages) of documentation for our product
which need to be adapted to Japanese, and we'd like to use the Mac and its
original graphics files and just change the text to Japanese!
-- Tamir --
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End of INFO-MAC Digest
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