SHULMAN@RED.RUTGERS.EDU (Jeffrey Shulman) (10/16/86)
Delphi Mac Digest Wednesday, 15 October 1986 Volume 2 : Issue 52
Today's Topics:
Finder 5.4
RE: HyperDrive FX/20 (Re: Msg 13710) (2 messages)
Scrolling (2 messages)
Point in Oval (3 messages)
Re: SCSI hard disks
RE: Radius FPD (Re: Msg 13695) (2 messages)
text editing (3 messages)
Stack Size (7 messages)
RE: Point in Ovel (Re: Msg 859)
OASIS 1.2,WayStation
HyperDrive 2000 (5 messages)
Motorola et al (2 messages)
C&S N/CSN&Y (2 messages)
RE: Graphics Magician
TurboCharger problems
PostScript Escape Font
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From: MACMAG (13715)
Subject: Finder 5.4
Date: 12-OCT 01:52 Business Mac
Finder 5.4 -=-=-=-=-=
A new Finder is on it's way and we managed to play around with it a bit.
This version is very similar to the old one except for a ffew points.
First, the about box now says: The Macintosh Finder, based on a novel by Bruce
Horn ... etc. (cute)
The trashcan is different. When you put something in the can, you will
now see a little handle comming out of it. When you empty the trash,
it disapears. This allows you to quickly see if anything is in there.
Get info boxes have been modified. They are now much smaller and use
Geneva 9 to display the info. The lock/unlock mechanism is at the
upper-right hand corner of the box, beside a small locked icon.
Folders have the old rounded-corner look and in the folder label piece:
this label piece can contain three dots like so: ...
( We figure that this may be used to find the "blessed" folder )
Last but not least, you can set attributes to the various on-line
volumes. These attributes are practical when used with file servers.
You can make a volume readable only (for example).
And if that wasn't all, they have just modified the control panel!
It is now a sort of "control-panel-construction set". Each control panel
function is kept on disk in a separate file. Each file contains a particular
setting. You only keep the files you need or want. One is for the sound (volume
setting) another is for the mouse (tracking, double-click speed, or tablet
setting), and there's one for your keyboard settings.
If no files are present on disk, you get a message saying: "you're out of
control!)
Anyways, more previews as they come.
Richard Brandow MacMag (the fastest information in the old West).... although
we're actually located in the North East!
------------------------------
From: BRECHER (13721)
Subject: RE: HyperDrive FX/20 (Re: Msg 13710)
Date: 12-OCT 05:13 Hardware & Peripherals
It looks as if you know a lot more about the FX/20 than I do! All I can really
say is that I know of no hidden "gotchas" that should prevent you from carrying
any of the three (DataFrame, HyperDrive, MicahDrive).
Note that I'm told that MICAH is currently pondering whether the 30 XT
will be offered, i.e., whether the line should be limited for now to
the 30 AT and the 60 XT. They have some doubt as to whether the
market will pay a $200-$300 premium for an extra 10MB and the other
features (speed, sector tags, dynamic defect management, etc) in a
segment that seems extremely price-conscious. They can't sell it for
less and make money, so it's not just a question of dropping the
price. I'm hoping the 30 XT will be offered, if for no other reason
than I have friends who are waiting for it. BTW, if it *is* offered,
DiskTimer results should be about 8.9, 8.9, 2.9 (without tags; tags
will be optional at format time. Don't have results w/tags yet). The
30 AT transfer figures are a tad faster, same access time. 60 XT same
as 30 XT except 1.9 on seek test.
------------------------------
From: MACINTOUCH (13728)
Subject: RE: HyperDrive FX/20 (Re: Msg 13721)
Date: 12-OCT 11:59 Hardware & Peripherals
We're currently evaluating a HyperDrive FX/20. I find it quiet, and
I'm sensitive to noise. It _is_ big, which seems like the largest
disadvantage to me. It has a nice set of basic utilities and a unique
software-settable SCSI address. This, combined with its external SCSI
termination, makes it a good choice for multiple SCSI-drive setups. I
expect the drive to be quite reliable. It uses a Seagate hard disk,
and early results from techniciansI know indicate no failures. I am
disappointed about the price and the short warranty, but I expect this
to be a solid unit.
Ric Ford
------------------------------
From: BRUSSES (851)
Subject: Scrolling
Date: 11-OCT 23:02 Current Discussions
I have a couple of questions having to do with scrolling. Currently, my
scrolling routines are based on an article Larry Rosenstein wrote for the
first issue of MacDeveloper. For the most part, they seem to work
properly, except for the following things:
* Edit records don't seem to scroll properly: At the moment,
I have several edit records on the screen. For the sake
of argument, let's make one of these records the active
edit record. When I scroll the window, the text of the
edit record moves correctly but, the mark remains in the
same place. What am I forgetting to do?
* Scrolling the text outside the clipping rectangle sometimes
produces strange results: For example, let's say my routine
scrolls an edit record which contains "Hello, world..."
outside of the clipping rectangle. When I scroll the record
back, I'll see things like "Heello, world..." on the screen.
(I have a feeling that this one is related to the previous
problem.)
* At times, the scroll bars don't update correctly: This
usually happens when the mouse-down occurs in the buttons
or page area of my scroll bar. Usually, one of the arrows
will remain black, and the thumb will move partially.
Any help will be appreciated! (In other words, I've been trying to make
this work for several days now, and it's ovbious to me that I've painted myself
into a corner.)
Thanks,
Bob
------------------------------
From: DDUNHAM (861)
Subject: RE: Scrolling (Re: Msg 851)
Date: 13-OCT 21:15 Current Discussions
If scrolling is doing something to scroll bars, it's probably because
the origin is not (0,0) when the scroll bars are being drawn.
------------------------------
From: SBOAG (852)
Subject: Point in Oval
Date: 12-OCT 16:17 Programming Techniques
I am a beginning C programer (Lightspeed) who is trying to write a
object-oriented drawing program just for fun. Things have been going
pretty good in the begining stages. I can draw a box, rectangle, and
line and store them as objects and move the rects around on the screen
with the mouse. A couple of questions I was hopeing someone might be
able to help me with: 1. does anyone know the formula for finding if
a point is in a oval? 2. is there any examples running around that
implements a pattern menu, such as in Macdraw or MacDraft? 3. Is
there any example programs that are running around that implement
object oriented graphics? My main questions are with storage.
Presently I have the actual objects stored in one sequential list.
this will obviously give me problems later on with deletion and with
growth of variable-sized objects. The best system would seem to be a
sequential list of handles to the objects, so that the objects are
left floating around and the memory-manager would take care of house
keeping. Any ideas on implementation? Am i on the right track?
Thanks
Scott Boag
------------------------------
From: PEABO (853)
Subject: RE: Point in Oval (Re: Msg 852)
Date: 12-OCT 16:59 Programming Techniques
Ah ... PtInOval! This reminds me of analytic geometry in school ... yes!
There's an old trick for drawing ellipses: you take a string, a pencil and two
pins, stick the pins into the paper at the foci of the ellipse, knot the string
into a loop somewhat larger than required to fit around the pins, and draw the
string taut around the pins and the pencil point by pulling the pencil point as
far away as it will go. Keeping it taut, you start moving the pencil in an arc
and it will trace out the ellipse.
This is based on the principle that the sum of the distance between each focus
and the point on the ellipse is constant. Therefore you can tell if a point is
inside or outside by computing the distance between the point and each focus,
adding these up and comparing against the similar sum for any point on the
ellipse.
The problem then is to find the foci, since you probably have
specified the ellipse in terms of its major and minor axes. The sum
of the distances from any point to the foci is the same as the length
of the major axis. This is easy to prove by examining the situation
where the point is the intersection of the major axis with the
ellipse. The obvious thing to do then is to look at the intersection
of the minor axis with the ellipse. If we represent the length of the
major axis as A and the minor axis as B and the distance from the
center of the ellipse to one of the foci as E, then we know that there
is a right triangle connecting the minor axis intersection, the
center, and the focus, and the hypoteneuse of the triangle is one half
the length of the major axis, so E**2 = (A/2)**2 - (B/2)**2.
That's all you need to know.
Too bad the other part of your question isn't so easy!
peter
------------------------------
From: DDUNHAM (862)
Subject: RE: Point in Ovel (Re: Msg 853)
Date: 13-OCT 21:16 Programming Techniques
Gosh, that sounds like work. Why not just make an oval region and do a
PtInRgn() call?
------------------------------
From: BRECHER (13758)
Subject: Re: SCSI hard disks
Date: 12-OCT 23:49 MUGS Online
to: news@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu (Usenet netnews)
Subject: SCSI hard disks
> Does anyone know what brand of drive is used for the major
> SCSI disc drives. i.e dataframe, Apple etc..
> I would especially like to know what drive apple uses since
> their drive is said to support filetags.
File tag support is a function of the controller rather than of the drive
itself. The Apple HD20SC uses a Seagate 225N with embedded controller; it
probably has custom ROMs to support tags. It does support tags, 'though Apple
has indicated that tags will probably not be supported by future products.
------------------------------
From: DDUNHAM (13770)
Subject: RE: Radius FPD (Re: Msg 13695)
Date: 13-OCT 03:16 Hardware & Peripherals
The stuff we got from Radius in Boston is incorrect; Andy told me it's out of
date because he had to move the globals (up by 32K) to keep them from getting
overwritten by some applications.
BTW, I think Andy will be patching TMON to do just what you suggest: run the
debugger on the Mac screen and the program on the Radius. The oddest thing
about running a debugger is that I keep reaching to the left of the Radius
screen to press the interrupt button.
There are indeed some cases when it's slower using the Radius, because
you are drawing more stuff (e.g. PageMaker, which does a lot of extra
drawing -- it's a lot worse now). But overall I think things are
faster, because you get a lot fewer update events from bringing a new
window to the front, and you scroll less often.
------------------------------
From: DDUNHAM (13783)
Subject: RE: Radius FPD (Re: Msg 13779)
Date: 13-OCT 21:11 Hardware & Peripherals
As far as I know, Radius FPD won't work with other stuff that attaches to the
68000.
------------------------------
From: AUTHORS (854)
Subject: text editing
Date: 12-OCT 21:43 Developers' Corner
peabo,
Thanks for answering my query about text editing. Just to
respond, I never heard that MacWrite 4.5 limits the number of
paragraphs in a document, as you say. Both old and new versions do
limit the number of characters per paragraph--in the old version, two
words of data prefaced each paragraph. The first, I believe, pointed
to the end of the formatting information for that paragraph, and the
second--the word immediately preceding the text itself-- represented
the length of the text, *plus* the length data itself. I think the new
version does something similar.
You seem to suggest that while MacWrite 4.5 segments text read into memory
by paragraph, 2.2 did not. Not so: both versions use that strategy, I think.
What would happen if a long document were in memory, and the application had to
lock a handle or read in code? Pretty tough for the memory manager to shift
forty or fifty pages around. Even the best-managed heaps have an immovable
block that occasionally isn't neatly at the beginning or end.
When the mouse moves the insertion point, the old (2.2) application called
sethandlesize twice, presumably to divide according to the insertion point.
That way, the application could more easily handle only the text which actually
needs to be manipulated (that is, ahead of the insertion point). If the text
were in one large block, it could take quite a while to add a character in the
middle of a long doc. If it's true, as you say, that 4.5 is limited as to
number of paragraphs, it isn't because the old MacWrite did not segment.
What happens when a character is actually typed is, I think, the
interesting (and nontrivial) question. How does the application
respond, for instance, when o when only one or a few characters lie
behind the insertion point--or for that matter ahead of it? Does the
application try to gather that small segment into a larger one,
providing the length limit is not exceeded? Incidentally, the number
of sethandlesizes is more than one would expect, when a character is
typed. I've looked at MacWrite with Macsbug, but not studied it all
that carefully.
To conclude: an interesting (and presently lacking)( area for the data-
bases would be text editing-- more important than some things on there now.
Designing a good editor, and handling (no pung, I guess) ythe memory
implementation of the Mac is challenging. Also, the increased memory of newer
machines should change some views on disk-based design.
Alex S
------------------------------
From: PEABO (857)
Subject: RE: text editing (Re: Msg 854)
Date: 13-OCT 00:00 Developers' Corner
True, I hadn't thought about what MW 2.2 did with the document in memory. It
may have had some limitations too (on number of paragraphs). The 4.5 version
allows a max on 450 para's on a 128K Mac and about 2000 on a 512K, if I recall.
I'd like to see something more in the way of text editing tools. For
example, even without having full attributes, a very useful
application would be TE with some way of bolding or underlining words.
There might be a way to hack the underlining using one of the hooks,
but bolding changes the width of characters, so I think you wind up
writing your own routines.
peter
------------------------------
From: DDUNHAM (863)
Subject: RE: text editing (Re: Msg 857)
Date: 13-OCT 21:16 Developers' Corner
Bolding doesn't always change the width of characters...check out
Palatino Bold.
------------------------------
From: HPP (855)
Subject: Stack Size
Date: 12-OCT 22:21 Programming Techniques
How does one control stack size? MinStack and/or DefltStack seem to, but what
is the proper way to do it?
------------------------------
From: HPP (856)
Subject: RE: Stack Size (Re: Msg 855)
Date: 12-OCT 22:34 Programming Techniques
As far as I can psych out from IM(1/2/3+4) the difference between
HeapEnd and BufPtr (or CurStakBase) is the max room for stack
expansion. If an APPL knows it will need a certain amount ( in my case
more than default) you get into one of those chicken vs. egg
situations..where after you are running its too late.. or is it?
Is there a commented listing of
128KROM available? Perhaps
from Apple? With a Cross-Ref to globals.. Then one could perhaps figure out
answers to such questions.
~Phil
------------------------------
From: PEABO (858)
Subject: RE: Stack Size (Re: Msg 856)
Date: 13-OCT 00:02 Programming Techniques
If you want to set the stack size, do it BEFORE letting the heap expand, since
there is nothing you can do once the heap gets into the area you need for stack
expansion.
peter
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From: LOGICHACK (866)
Subject: RE: Stack Size (Re: Msg 858)
Date: 13-OCT 23:01 Programming Techniques
But I thought the new ROM segment loader expanded the heap to maximum size and
then put your preload CODE segments up high in the heap.
Is there a clean solution to this or do we have to do something like
relaunching the program after setting up the proper globals. This is
the way to handle use of the second video page.
I'd like to increase the stack size in a MacApp application. Maybe there's an
easier way...
Paul :)
------------------------------
From: BRECHER (868)
Subject: RE: Stack Size (Re: Msg 866)
Date: 14-OCT 03:52 Programming Techniques
The segment loader does NOT expand the heap.
------------------------------
From: PEABO (869)
Subject: RE: Stack Size (Re: Msg 866)
Date: 14-OCT 11:53 Programming Techniques
I don't think it does ... but perhaps I should check. I was experimenting with
a little hack to preload all my segments at run time for ease of debugging,
*and* do a MoveHHi on them, and I could swear I wound up with some stuff in the
middle during one of my tests. This was with the new ROMs.
peter
------------------------------
From: JEFFS (870)
Subject: RE: Stack Size (Re: Msg 869)
Date: 14-OCT 20:08 Programming Techniques
According to "How to Write Macintosh Software", if you want more stack, all you
have to do is set the global ApplLimit to a lower value. This needs to be done
*before* you call MaxApplZone (if you do) and before you use much heap space.
Jeff
------------------------------
From: PEABO (860)
Subject: RE: Point in Ovel (Re: Msg 859)
Date: 13-OCT 15:31 Programming Techniques
You can probably get away without doing any floating point, by being
very attentive to how you do the square roots. The real trick would
be to figure out some way to avoid even doing the square roots.
Something that just occurred to me is that you are asking a
topological question, not a geometric one. Since an ellipse is
topologically equivalent to a circle, and in fact can be stretched to
form a circle, the real way to solve this problem is vastly easier:
just scale the coordinate system so that the minor axis is the same as
the major axis. Then the ellipse is a circle, and you don't have to
compute any square roots!!
peter
------------------------------
From: RAMARREN (13807)
Subject: OASIS 1.2,WayStation
Date: 14-OCT 04:17 Mousing Around
reading all the comments on Oasis and WayStation has sparked an
interest in researching usage of the DeskTop metaphor. The topic of
visual organization, how all of us are setting up our machines,
reminds me of a couple of articles I once read in the psychology
journals relating to differentiation of non- uniform objects.
Anyone interested in contributing notes on their setups/visual structures?
As for Oasis and WayStation:
I have two Mac's, one is a 512K HyperDrive 20 machine, old ROMs
that I use at work. There, about 60-80% of my time is spent
in Versaterm and Helix, with the remainder split between Word,
various Paint programs, MacDraw and MEdit. A modified version of
WayStation (as per Steve Riggins article in the LA Mac Group
newsletter) with the Finder renamed and WayStation on the
Desktop (named Finder) works great in that MFS environment.
Oasis, of course, doesn't work without the new ROMs; I would
use it there if it did as I am often opening up the same
database file from Helix all the time. The speed is great,
the DA's work so a few utility DA's take care of the usual
rename and delete functions, and a MockWrite/NotePad+/miniWriter
DA is perfect. At home, I have been trying to figure out a
reasonable scheme for
one or the other of these programs, but they just don't cut it. I do
too many spurious things, like talk to BBS and VAXen, then do a
bit of picture digitizing and colorizing,then some programming,
etc. This machine has 128K ROMs and a MacMemory board, so
I set the cache to 768K usually and the Finder flies. When I'm
programming, the MEdit Transfer menu is great and suitably quick.
On the basis of the above, I've removed both products from my disk
here as being a waste of space and inappropriate to my needs.
so much for my two cents. gdg:: October 14, 1986
"free advice is usually worth what you pay."
------------------------------
From: MACINTOUCH (13819)
Subject: HyperDrive 2000
Date: 14-OCT 21:09 Hardware & Peripherals
You know, I've been using this thing full-time for a few days, and
it's starting to get kinda addicting. The speed is real nice ...
Ric
------------------------------
From: HSTARR (13821)
Subject: RE: HyperDrive 2000 (Re: Msg 13819)
Date: 14-OCT 21:24 Hardware & Peripherals
However -- my Hyperr 2000 died (or not quite, had a startup problem) within the
first week. It turned out to be a cable, of all things.
GCC still can't crack it with me -- Every Hyper I have has had at least one
failure in the first week, and two have had new controllers.
I am also sick of the support people asking me if I have run the disk
test, etc.
------------------------------
From: HSTARR (13822)
Subject: RE: HyperDrive 2000 (Re: Msg 13819)
Date: 14-OCT 21:28 Hardware & Peripherals
I was talking to Bill Duval at Consulair today -- his Direct Acccess C compiler
for the Hyper won't be done till next year. He is currently working on a C for
the II/gs, after finishing the Prodigy compiler.
Wow! the Prodigy turns in over 600,000 whetstones whereas the Hyper is only 48,
000 (with SANE intercept).
I don't know about Absoft - they have a $495 MacFortran/020 package which has a
68020/68881 run time library. They ssem to be busy on Amiga, Atari versions of
the compiler.
------------------------------
From: MACINTOUCH (13847)
Subject: RE: HyperDrive 2000 (Re: Msg 13843)
Date: 15-OCT 19:57 Hardware & Peripherals
Harry, Thanks for the tip on Macsbug. I appreciate it. (For you other folks,
putting Macsbug in the Startup drawer (System folder) makes the HyperDrive
freeze on startup, rendering it useless until you boot off floppy and remove
Macsbug.)
I gave Tmon a quick test, and HeapShow. Both seemed to work fine on the 2000.
Have you noticed any other problems??
Ric
------------------------------
From: HSTARR (13855)
Subject: RE: HyperDrive 2000 (Re: Msg 13847)
Date: 15-OCT 21:34 Hardware & Peripherals
Ric -- Tempo v1.1 is a no-no. It will install OK, but on first invokation, la
bomba supreme!
I have noticed from Nosy'ing the Hyper "idinit", that it does extensive memory
reconfiguration, including moving screen contents (you did notice that little
flick during boot, didn't you), and patching certain 68000 vectors in low
memory.
This is probably why there are problems with these things (MacsBug, Tempo et
al). However, there seems to be special case code for MacsBug.
I use Macsbug 5.3, and the only problem I have encountered is that the
debuggers screen is all screwed up, on initial entry. I suspect that
maybe if one reassigns Tempo's Init after that of the Hyper, then
maybe it would run. To be continued....
------------------------------
From: HSTARR (13823)
Subject: Motorola et al
Date: 14-OCT 21:30 Hardware & Peripherals
Does any one know where I can obtain literature on the WHOLE 68000 family, from
the 68008 to 68030, in summary and full details, including the peripheral chips
and FP/68881 and MMU/68851 etc????
I am looking for names and phone numbers and/or contacts
Thanks -- Harry
------------------------------
From: PEABO (13828)
Subject: RE: Motorola et al (Re: Msg 13823)
Date: 14-OCT 22:10 Hardware & Peripherals
The handiest item I have here is the 68010/68012 Advance Information
sheet -- I say sheet because it's technically called a data sheet but
actually a 10 chapter booklet. It says 3501 Ed Bluestein Blvd, Autin
TX 78721.
Try badgering your local Motorola rep.
peter
------------------------------
From: MOUSEKETEER (13830)
Subject: C&S N/CSN&Y
Date: 14-OCT 22:28 Mousing Around
This week's Computer + Software News reports that Apple has just
privately unveiled it's new ad series, the first public viewing to
take place during the first game of the World Series (Boston Red
Sox vs. Houston Astros, of course ;-)).
The new theme is "The Power to Be Your Best" and features Graham
Nash singing a new version of "Teach Your Children Well". Gene
Siskel, who viewed the private showing of the new commercials
said, "It lays a gentle guilt trip on any parent who doesn't
teach his children well."
Rumors are circulating that in retaliation Atari has hired Steven
Stills to sing "Our Mouse, is a very very very fine mouse (fine
mouse), with two buttons not one...", while Commodore has penned
a contract with Neil Young, and will have their own song, "Don't
You Know You're Typing on the Amiga Express" out as soon as they
find out what key Neil actually sings in.
Not to be out done, IBM is said to have David Crosby working in a
Southern CA studio on "Suite: Truly Blue Buys".
;-)
Alf
------------------------------
From: PEABO (13835)
Subject: RE: C&S N/CSN&Y (Re: Msg 13830)
Date: 15-OCT 01:11 Mousing Around
Oh my aching head!
Seriously though, that wasn't the first public unveiling -- the
commercials were shown at the Apple User Group briefings in the middle
of September.
peter
------------------------------
From: MACINTOUCH (13846)
Subject: RE: Graphics Magician
Date: 15-OCT 19:43 Network Digests
To: bill@hao.UUCP (Bill Roberts) Subject: Graphics Magician
MacroMind, developers of VideoWorks, are supposed to have animation kits for
developers who want to do animation in their own applications. If they
actuallyare selling such a thing, it's probably the best available.
MacroMind, 1028 W. Wolfram St., Chicago, IL 60657; 312-871-0987.
Ric Ford
------------------------------
From: MACINTOUCH (13848)
Subject: TurboCharger problems
Date: 15-OCT 19:59 Bugs & Features
I've had a lot of trouble with freezes and such running TurboCharger 2.0 and
using the Quick Quit option. It seems to be working OK with that turned off,
and I recommend staying away from it unless you're in an adventurous mood.
Ric Ford
------------------------------
From: MADMACS (13854)
Subject: PostScript Escape Font
Date: 15-OCT 21:26 Business Mac
Does anyone have information regarding the PostScript escape font? I
would like to ad PostScript program fragments to files created in Mac
applications but would like to avoid having to do a command-F and then
edit the file. BTW, I have written a word that makes the black to gray
screen seen in the PS cookbook. I am working on making it smoother to
use, but let me know if you w would like me to post it here. -Doug
Wood (MADMACS)
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End of Delphi Mac Digest
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