INFO-MAC-REQUEST@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA (Moderator David Gelphman...) (10/27/86)
INFO-MAC Digest Sunday, 26 Oct 1986 Volume 5 : Issue 1
Today's Topics:
Bad copy of GAME-GO.HQX
Beware! Finder doesn't report disk errors
List Manager glue for SUMacC?
MacDraw and shifting pictures (arrows)
MacDraw Bugs
More MacDraw Problems
Re: MacWrite, MacPaint, MacDraw bugs
CENTRAM software plans
File Checking program [ forwarded from Usenet ]
DA-BACKDOWN.HQX
Usenet Mac Digest V2 #87
Delphi Mac Digest V2 #54
MazeWars+
Re: Mazewars
Re: Maze Wars
NN&Q: Tempo macros, an accolade and a caveat
What does Disk Verify verify?
MacTran 77 vs. MS Fortran V2.2
Re: Microsoft
Why use FrontMan?
FEdit?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun 26 Oct 86 13:35:11-PST
From: David Gelphman... <INFO-MAC-REQUEST@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
Subject: Bad copy of GAME-GO.HQX
Sorry to say that the copy of GAME-GO.HQX which was posted
to the archives was bad and can't be unbinhexed. For some
reason I can't get mail through to the original poster so
I can't get a good copy. Sorry to all who spent time trying
to download the program unsuccessfully. David
------------------------------
From: stew%lhasa.UUCP@harvard.HARVARD.EDU
Date: 25 Oct 86 22:41 EDT
Subject: Beware! Finder doesn't report disk errors
It's been rumored before that the Finder sometimes quietly fails
when copying files. Well, I now have a documented case.
I have this text file, 13K long, with a .5K resource fork. I read it
in using Lightspeed C and it says, unknown error -36. That's an
"unspecified i/o error". I guess a block on my disk went bad
(it's a Generic 20, a 20Mb SCSI disk from Trimar, Inc).
So I quit from LSC and try duplicating the offending file
with the Finder. Works without error.
Now I'm wondering what's up, so I go into FEdit and look around.
Sure enough, an attempt to read in block 23 of the data fork
of the offending file gives an error -36. Much to my surprise,
I look at the duplicate, and IT HAS NO DATA FORK!
This can't be happening, I think. So now I go back to the Finder
trap on Read in MacsBug, and duplicate the file again. So it breaks
at the Read, I step, and it returns error -36. The Finder pays
no heed.
Moral: don't use the Finder to copy files without making sure
that your copy was successful. I think that checking the sizez
of the resulting files is enough, but maybe we need a program
to copy files with verification and careful error checking for
those of us who don't like to lose files.
Sadder but wiser,
Stew Rubenstein <stew@endor.harvard.edu>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 86 11:32:47 EDT
From: Mark Nodine <mnodine@labs-b.bbn.com>
Subject: List Manager glue for SUMacC?
Has anybody written glue to access the List Manager (PACK 0) using SUMacC? If
so, how can I get it?
--Mark
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 86 11:50:38 +0200
From: Tamir Weiner <UMFORTH%WEIZMANN.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU>
Subject: MacDraw and shifting pictures (arrows)
Paul: I read of your problem with the shifting arrows in Info-Mac-Digest.
I too have seen the same thing while switching between MacDraw and other
applications on a 512K mac.
I can't shed a lot of light on the problems you've been having, but I
can give you what might be more information for finding a solution.
If you do find a solution, please post it to the digest and/or mail to
me as I am using MacDraw extensively and for similar stuff.
1. MacDraw doesn't seem to identify fonts correctly between applications
at all. If you use font "x" in MacWrite (or another application) and
then switch to MacDraw, and MacDraw is on a system disk with different
fonts, then it may or may not identify the text as font "x"... depending
on the number of other fonts and their positions.
I've had this problem even when the fonts appeared in the same order
on both system disks. The best way to avoid such changing fonts I've
found is to use identical system files both on the MacDraw disk and on
another disk.... or better yet, if you're using an 800K disk you can
place MacDraw and your word processor and the system on the same disk
so that the system Fonts are identical for each application.
2. As far as the shifting arrows are concerned, we've noticed the same
problems at work. It happens whenever MacDraw ports a picture to or
from another application, the control points of the objects can be
altered in position slightly.
I don't have a solution, but it seems to have helped to group the objects
together before porting the picture and the control points then are
more stable and shift far less if at all. Although I can't say that
this has eliminated the problem, it has helped. We don't have that
many complex arrows in our drawings since our need for "splining"
is absent in MacDraw (arrows must be straight lines only).
The other "hint" I can give is that I've noticed this problem usually with
very small objects where the control points were close together, try
drawing larger pictures, they seem less susceptible to such shifting!
Good Luck.
------------------------------
Subject: MacDraw Bugs
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 86 14:28:52 -0500
From: tgw@mitre-bedford.ARPA
I'd like to know if anyone has experienced this bug with Mac Draw.
Given:
Grid - on
Custom Rulers - 1 inch, 16 divisions / inch
1) Draw a box and put text inside the box.
_____________
|THIS IS A |
|TEST |
|_____________|
2) Select the box and text inside.
...................
. _____________ .
. |THIS IS A | .
. |TEST | .
. |_____________| .
................../\
||
3) Move the selected box and text around the drawing. The text will
begin to creep outside of the box.
This still happens when you group the box and text together.
Some other settings for the custom rulers either minimize the effect,
or not appear to elliminate it.
This really bugs me and I have not found any easy workaround.
Tim Wade
(tgw@mitre-bedford)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 86 08:53:10 ADT
From: PAUL%Acadia.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU (Paul Steele - Acadia
Subject: More MacDraw Problems
This one may have appeared in a past digest, although I don't recall
seeing it. The problem occurs when porting MacDraw files from one
system (disk) to another system (disk) that may have different fonts
in different orders. Any other program handle the differences properly.
MacDraw, however, leaves your font selections totally changed. It
even seems to occur if the two systems have the same fonts in the same
order, although that may not be true. In any case, does anybody out
there know of a fix? Is there an update that solves the problem? I
would really like to know. Please send any suggestions to:
==> Paul@Acadia
------------------------------
Date: Fri 24 Oct 86 11:48:24-CDT
From: Werner Uhrig <CMP.WERNER@R20.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: MacWrite, MacPaint, MacDraw bugs
David,
do I ever share your sentiments. It is unfathomable to me why Apple
exposes itself to get "tared and feathered" for these short-comings. And it
is only our combined lethargy that explains why we haven't started a little
campaign to make Apple feel the heat for that ....
---Werner
------------------------------
Date: Fri 24 Oct 86 12:14:55-PDT
From: John Mark Agosta <JOHNMARK@Truffle.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: CENTRAM software plans
Tim Maroney gave us an insight into the development work underway at
CENTRAM systems in his talk to the Stanford Macintosh Developer SIG.
It will be an interesting world when these ideas makes their way into
commercial products.
CENTRAM TOPS server software, which has been shipping for several
months, is the company's first product, and has been doing well enough
to let them move into a larger facility. It is built on top of a
"remote function protocol", a close relative of the "Apple session
protocol." TOPS intercepts the basic file traps, like PBOpen, etc,
and using the protocol, executes a corresponding routine remotely.
This is how it lets you share files on another disk over AT.
Apples "apple file protocol" will in principle be the same, and
CENTRAM intends to maintain compatability with AFP in their "TOPS-2"
version of server software. This is where the story really begins...
CENTRAM is, in various stages of extending TOPS, in the next versions,
to include:
- A unix server. This would require a hardware connection, like one of
the Kinetics gateway products. The main addition needed to the
present product is "file illusion management", eg., a way of
aliasing files to various parts of the unix file stucture, like
link allows within the file structure. Conceivably, there would
be a table that maintained these links more or less invisibly to
the user.
- A VMS server also. This is still on the drawing board.
Tim has been working on a commercial version of "MacIP", a version of
telnet for the Mac that runs on top of TCP/IP protocols. This grew out
of the public domain version he worked on at CMU. This version,
however will be commercial quality software. This would let the Mac
live on a local net with unix machines (again connected by a Kinetics
gateway), and, as far as I see, not require the rest of the net to
understand the remote function protocol. The Mac would speak a range
of the existing network protocols that run on TCP/IP, except I don't
recall him having plans to let the Mac be an ftp server.
As a consequence of this and other products, Tim has plans for a large
number of "building block" pieces of software. For MacIP he plans to
write a complete complement of telnet/ftp/smtp/TCP/IP for the Mac.
For TOPS he has an "Interbase" multi-file B-tree package with multiple
keys. Also, the SFfile routines required modification for TOPS, which
is refered to as the "file interface package." Most exciting is a
rewrite of the Mac OS to allow multi-tasking (no kidding). This would
not be forward compatible with existing Mac software, (no one writes
applications clean enough to make that possible) but rather would let
CENTRAM applications work in a multitasking environment.
These numerous building blocks are not planned as commercial products,
but might be licensed (eg. to developers, so many people could use the
TOPS protocols, for instance), and distributed thru developer
channels.
Finally, another product planned is a Postal system, with a nifty Mac
interface and automatic remote retrieval of messages. It would work
with or without a mainframe server host.
Tim gave the impression of aiming his development towards a TCP/IP
network environment, like the universities have grown to use.
CENTRAM's first product was rather a pure AT implementation. It will
be interesting to see in the future which direction AT develops - or
whether there will be an extension in some domains of AT to
incorporate other (read TCP/IP) traditionally used protocols.
The meeting broke up into an informal discussion about "low end" links
the Mac could provide to a TCP/IP net - like serial and dial up line
connections - or the Mac as serial to AT gateway. These are clearly
not the optimum way of putting the Mac on the net, but the group saw
this as an unaddressed practical need.
-johnmark
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 86 12:21:52 cst
From: werner@ngp.UTEXAS.EDU (Werner Uhrig)
Subject: File Checking program [ forwarded from Usenet ]
From bates@ssdevo.dec.com (Ken Bates DTN 522-2039) Thu Oct 23 19:08:08 1986
Path: ut-ngp!ut-sally!seismo!columbia!rutgers!sri-spam!sri-unix!hplabs!pyramid!decwrl!ssdevo.dec.com!bates
From: bates@ssdevo.dec.com (Ken Bates DTN 522-2039)
Newsgroups: net.sources.mac
Subject: File checking program
Message-ID: <6078@decwrl.DEC.COM>
Date: 24 Oct 86 00:08:08 GMT
Sender: daemon@decwrl.DEC.COM
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 333
As partial payment for all the useful things I've received from this newsgroup,
I offer the following program. It is designed to scan and verify all files on
a 400K, 800K, or hard disk, both HFS and MFS directories. If you own a low
reliability hard disk such as I do (six units in one year), you may find it
useful. There is a fairly extensive help screen which explains the operation
and available options. Comments and bug reports cheerfully accepted.
- Ken Bates
[ archived as
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>UTILITY-FILECHECK.HQX
DAVEG
]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 86 02:16:35 EDT
From: David D'Souza <djdsouza@ATHENA.MIT.EDU>
Subject: DA-BACKDOWN.HQX
Reply-to: Djdsouza@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Here is a DA which lets you download in the background. Very nice if
you do a lot of downloading to your Mac. Includes documentation and
version delta (latest) of the DA.
[ archived as
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>DA-BACKDOWN.HQX
DAVEG
]
------------------------------
Date: 25 Oct 86 11:39:44 EDT
From: Jeffrey Shulman <SHULMAN@RED.RUTGERS.EDU>
Subject: Usenet Mac Digest V2 #87
Usenet Mac Digest Saturday, 25 October 1986 Volume 2 : Issue 87
Thoughts on MacWorld Expo/Dallas
Help on Serial Driver, please!
Logic Analysis
power packs on //, Mac
Grow box AND zoom box in old system on old Mac
Icon grid in Finder
Re: Grow box AND zoom box in old system on old Mac
Re: Icon grid in Finder
Re: Keyboard Layout
MPW C (ANSI extensions?)
A quick question regarding a _Control call in assembly code
Re: New Apple ad campaign
Re: Thoughts on MacWorld Expo/Dallas
Software Project Management
Extension cable for Apple Hard Disk 20
Using a Mac+ as UNIX terminal emulator
Re: Motorola 68040
Re: Editable text items in Dialogs
Re: A quick question regarding a _Control call in assembly code
this sounds like a good deal. PD-software disks at $2.75 ...
Apple profits up 151%; cancels COMDEX participation
LightSpeedC setjmp/longjmp question
Lisa to Mac compatibility
Re: Icon grid in Finder
Stock Quote Software Query
[ archived as
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>USENETV2-87.ARC
DAVEG
]
------------------------------
Date: 25 Oct 86 15:00:15 EDT
From: Jeffrey Shulman <SHULMAN@RED.RUTGERS.EDU>
Subject: Delphi Mac Digest V2 #54
Delphi Mac Digest Saturday, 25 October 1986 Volume 2 : Issue 54
Today's Topics:
A+ Magazine
LightSpeed C/Loadseg hangs! (9 messages)
RE: database structure (Re: Msg 431) (2 messages)
bug in textedit? (2 messages)
RE: Point in Oval (Re: Msg 874)
RE: Telescape Pro Vt100 (Re: Msg 13997)
From the Bureau of Interesting Facts (2 messages)
LightspeedC globals (2 messages)
Lightspeed C Menu Defintion Routine (2 messages)
RE: Some questions (Re: Msg 14029)
Laser spoolers? (10 messages)
RE: Usenet Mac Digest V2 #86 (Re: Msg 14054)
RE: TeX (Re: Msg 14163)
A question
DS copier beta - problem
Another BBS...
font limitations (6 messages)
new resedit (2 messages)
[ archived as
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>DELPHIV2-54.ARC
DAVEG
]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 86 09:40 PDT
From: PUGH%CCV.MFENET@LLL-MFE.ARPA
Subject: MazeWars+
After spending many nights fighting with MazeWars I went and got a copy of
MazeWar+. I am very glad I did!
I had so many problems getting MazeWar to run on my Mac and my Mac+ and anyone
else's machine that I got sick to death of it. It got to the point where it
wasn't worth trying to play the damn thing.
With Maze+ that has all changed. It is trivial to boot Maze+ and it is rock
solid. I haven't had ANY problems (actually, it and TOPS don't seem to get
along, but I haven't tested that too much).
Maze+ also has features that MazeWar doesn't, like a Robot sidekick who is 1)
controlled by you, 2) a hunter, 3) a Teleport booth that can walk through walls,
or 4) an invisible (but with a shadow) thing that crashes into people. It
also has missles, eliminating that, "Hey, I shot too!" cry that MazeWar always
solicited. It plays over Appletalk and/or a modem. It has four levels of
slightly smaller mazes. It has sound effects and message capabilities. It
has a number of handicap options (with all options of all players displayed so
you can tell if a good player isn't using his handicap) like radar that only
works when you are stationary, no radar, and the old MazeWars proximity radar.
My advice is to go out and buy a copy (or get one from a friend for testing
purposes, you'll be sold!). This program is worth it.
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 86 15:58 N
From: <INFOEARN%HLERUL5.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mazewars
Jonathan,
Regarding the problem with Mazewars: do you mean Mazewars or Mazewars+?
All I know is that Mazewars+ needs a *lot* of memory, about 512K. It will
play on a Fat Mac, but will complain if you are using the HD-20 file to
load HFS: too little memory.
Mazewars+ runs fine on a Mac+ as long as the cache isn't too big.
-- Thomas
FRUIN@HLERUL5.BITNET or
INFOEARN@HLERUL5.BITNET
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 86 19:49:42 pdt
From: oster%lapis.Berkeley.EDU@BERKELEY.EDU (David Phillip Oster)
Subject: Re: Maze Wars
In August of '85 I paid $300 to attend a 2-day seminar on appletalk.
During the seminar I was shown MazeWar, but I was told that since it did a
number of non-standard things at the network level, Apple did not intend
to release it to the public. I have since discovered that in addition to
doing non-standard things at the net level, it also does non-stndard
things at the graphics level: It has hard-coded into it the assumption
that it is running on a 512k Mac. (Size and location of video ram.)
Does anyone know how MazeWar got out of Apple? Given the flakiness of the
verion of MazeWar on INFO-MAC, and the low price of the released,
supported MazeWar+, you really should just buy a copy of MazeWar+.
--- David Phillip Oster -- "The goal of Computer Science is to
Arpa: oster@lapis.berkeley.edu -- build something that will last at
Uucp: ucbvax!ucblapis!oster -- least until we've finished building it."
------------------------------
Date: Fri 24 Oct 86 10:53:17-CDT
From: LRC.HJJH@R20.UTEXAS.EDU
Subject: NN&Q: Tempo macros, an accolade and a caveat
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NOVICE NOTES & QUERIES ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tempo is a fairly new piece of software on the market, designed for
creating Mac macros. You, in effect, tell the machine, "Watch me while
I do X." And then, whenever you want to do X again you tap a couple keys
as a code to say, "OK, Mac, \you/ go and do X just like I did." Macros
can be great, especially for repetitive tasks. For a trivial example,
keying your return address at the top of letters. Or dialing in to a
mainframe. Or getting the printer to go ahead and print without your
having to scoot the arrow across the screen to click the OK box. They
can get vastly more complex, or be simple enough for a novice like
myself still stumbling around in MacWrite.
Yes, Tempo macros can be great, but emulate amorous porcupines in
creating and TESTING them!
I've a couple dozen MacWrite files of index-like text for which I made a
macro to substitute roman numerals I to XX for arabic numbers 01 to 20.
When applied (in a test file-- I'm not an utter idiot;-), 07 came out as
VI, 08 as VII, and 18 as XVII. Tho I had typed pretty carefully, I
cannot be absolutely positive I made \no/ errors, but I am SURE I didn't
make three! And while I might have to stop and think about some of the
other roman letter/numerals or their sequence in relation to each other,
the II's and III's are almost instinctive. Because of that, I suspect
the multiple I's were keyed too swiftly for them to register.
Re-creating the macro, I typed them v-e-r-y carefully one _ by _ one
and scrutinized the screen intently. Second time around, everything
came out OK.
Well, so I had to key the corresponding pairs twice. It still beat
having to key them twenty-odd times. Tempo is worth looking into.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 86 17:21 EDT
From: BELSLEY%BCVAX3.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU (DAVID A. BELSLEY)
Subject: What does Disk Verify verify?
Several Infomac episodes ago, a utility called Disk Verify was posted. I've
downloaded it and used it, and it seems to do whatever it does quite nicely
and speedily. But what does it do? Suppose, for example, one initializes
a single-sided disk double sided, and the initialization is successful. At
this stage, one still does not know that the data sectors are trustworthy.
Now suppose one runs this disk through Disk Verify, and all goes well. Have
the data sectors now been tested? And, if so, how reliable is the test given
by Disk Verify relative to the type of testing that would be given by the
manufacturer before it was released as a double-sided disk?
Thanks to any and all for helping provide such information.
david a. belsley
boston college belsley@bcvax3.bitnet
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 86 14:21:59 pdt
From: Bernard Aboba <bernard@ararat>
Subject: MacTran 77 vs. MS Fortran V2.2
The November MacUser carries an ad for MacTran 77 on pp. 153. It is
distributed by DCM Data Products of Ft. Worth, TX. Phone: (817) 870-2202.
After calling them, I found out the following:
MacTran 77 is an integrated editor, compiler, and symbolic debugger, aimed
at being the "LightSpeed" of the Fortran market. The linker isn't finished
yet though, so you have to put everything in one big file for now. The
linker upgrade will come free when it's finished. Documentation is
a reference manual, and a users manual, EACH 200 pages, including
documentation for toolbox support. It's a native code, full ANSI 77 compiler,
with Toolbox support, HFS compatible.
There is an educational discount: $99 + $5 shipping and handling.
I will state flat out that I am NOT a fan of Microsoft (or Absoft) Fortran.
If this product does 75% of what they say it does, then MS Fortran is
in big trouble, with it's minimal documentation, poor use of the Mac
interface, etc. etc. etc.
Has anyone used this product? Comparisons with MS Fortran would be valuable.
Just think: instead of spending your time writing to Microsoft to suggest
bug fixes or language extensions, you could be programming! What a concept!
I am not connected with either Microsoft or DCM, other than being a
disgruntled user of MS Fortran.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 86 12:05:19 EDT
From: olson@harvard.HARVARD.EDU (Eric Olson)
Subject: Re: Microsoft
Greg Lobdell writes:
16: In your original message you indicated that you felt Microsoft was not
17: sensitive to the customer's needs. This is simply not true. Take a look
18: at Microsoft BASIC for the Mac, this is one of the nicest BASICs available
19: on any Micro... primarily due to the fact that we listened to what our
20: customers asked for and implemented it!
21:
I reply:
Look at MacBasic (if you can find it, or one of the manuals if you can't) and
you will see a BASIC truly worthy of running on a Mac. MacBasic would have
given a whole new meaning to the language-- perhaps set a new standard (the
Mac seems to be good at influencing standards). But it never came out!
Why, you ask? I heard that MacBasic, although nearly complete (I saw a
Beta version that didn't need that much work), was cancelled by Apple
because of pressure from Microsoft!!!!!! Apparently Microsoft wouldn't
renew Apple's liscense for the Apple II ROMs unless Apple canned MacBasic.
I wouldn't call that sensitive to the user's needs.
If I am in error, anyone, please feel free to flame hotly at me.
"One of the nicest BASICs available on any Micro..." primarily because we
forced the other one out of existence. :-(
-Eric
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 86 09:48 PDT
From: PUGH%CCV.MFENET@LLL-MFE.ARPA
Subject: Why use FrontMan?
I don't want to make all the work someone put into FrontMan pointless, but why
do you need FrontMan? My note last ish mentioned an easy way to do the same
thing from the Finder.
Pull all the items you want to Print or start a program with out onto the desk.
Pull the program itself if the documents are of differing types. Close all
blocking windows. Select all the documents and the program from the desk.
Doubleclick on the program or select Print. When you are done, select all the
files again and pull down Put Away from the File menu. Everything goes right
back where you got it from. Pretty simple really. A lot easier to do than to
describe.
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 86 09:23:30 ADT
From: PAUL%Acadia.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU (Paul Steele - Acadia
Subject: FEdit?
I've been trying to get the latest copy of FEdit, or at least some
program which does the same thing for HFS volumns. I sent a check
to the address in my current version of FEdit, but never received
an update (my check was never cashed). Would someone please let me
know where I can get a program like FEdit for HFS files. NB: I don't
have access to the INFO-MAC archives (!@#$$@!?), so I'll have to go
by the old fashioned mail technique. Thanks.
==> Paul@Acadia
[ note from moderator: ComputerWare in Palo Alto is now selling Fedit
(probably for less than the author) so they are a good bet. I've posted their
phone and address several times. Note that the current version is
unable to recover files from HFS volumes using tags. DAVEG ]
------------------------------
End of INFO-MAC Digest
**********************