SHULMAN@RED.RUTGERS.EDU.UUCP (11/27/86)
Delphi Mac Digest Thursday, 27 November 1986 Volume 2 : Issue 62
Today's Topics:
programming help (3 messages)
Not again....
RE: Why are MAC/SCSI disks so expensive? (2 messages
RE: MIDI Interfaces
Comparisons:PASCAL (6 messages)
RE: MPW observations (4 messages)
RE: boot problem (4 messages)
RE: Re: Mac Engineering
San Francisco expo
Mac upgrade shaft (12 messages)
Discipline (2 messages)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: KENWINOGRAD
Subject: programming help
Date: 24-NOV 18:39 Programming Techniques
Hi. I just got a letter from someone who had downloaded my HangMan application.
I found out that when you click HangMan and play it and then quit (everything
fine so far) and then double click it again (to play it again) the finder shows
an alert saying "this application is already open or missing" or something like
that. I verified it and indeed that does occur. As I remember that did not
occur before I moved up to a macplus and hfs. Has
anyone seen anything like this ? Any clues appreciated. Thanks. Ken
------------------------------
From: PEABO
Subject: RE: programming help (Re: Msg 1021)
Date: 25-NOV 20:14 Programming Techniques
Just a thought ... do you open the application data fork, or anything
like that? I don't think this is the problem, but the symptom sure
sounds like one of the forks of the file is remaining open after it
exits.
Aside to anyone ... exactly where/when does the resource fork of a running
application get closed? Does the segment loader take care of this somehow?
peter
------------------------------
From: KENWINOGRAD
Subject: RE: programming help (Re: Msg 1026)
Date: 25-NOV 23:25 Programming Techniques
Thanks ptr, that sounds like an excellent idea. I most certainly do
open up the data fork (tho I'm pretty sure I close right after I get
the custom (non mac) font from there). I shall certainly recheck it.
I fopen it (as I remeber), get the data, and close it. BVut we'll
see.
ken
------------------------------
From: MOUSEKETEER
Subject: Not again....
Date: 24-NOV 20:29 Mousing Around
Spare Announcement...
After a long period of reflection and decision making (I flipped a coin)
I am semi-pleased to announce a new issue of The Mouseketeer Newsletter
is in the works, going out in the next couple of weeks. If you were on the
mailing list before, you are still there for this issue (those who want off
send cash...).
Still, with all the new Delphites and Uselessnet folk around these days,
how about the following arrangement? If you aren't on the Mousy mailing
list and wish to receive a copy of the next issue, send a SASE to the below
address in the next few days, along with a short note including your
address for insertion into the regular list at a later date.
For those who don't know, TMNL is a serious, scholarly journal devoted to
the advancement of culinary arts involving French coldcuts, or "des
graisseuses pieces grandes de viande froide".
Alfonso T. Qwerty
Contributing Editor
The Mouseketeer Newsletter
P.O. Box 19030, #150
Houston, TX 77224
------------------------------
From: MACINTOUCH
Subject: RE: Why are MAC/SCSI disks so expensive?
Date: 24-NOV 22:24 Network Digests
To: woo@nyu-acf4.arpa (Alex C. Woo)
Why are MAC/SCSI disks so expensive?
Mac hard disk prices are coming down rapidly. A Warp 9 Photon 20 works,
quietly for $600. It has a power supply and a case. I don't think the AT
drives do.
We Mac enthusiasts are no longer far behind the PC folks in the price wars.
Ric Ford
------------------------------
From: BRECHER
Subject: Re: Re: Why are MAC/SCSI disks so expensive?
Date: 25-NOV 04:10 MUGS Online
To: <INFOEARN%HLERUL5.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU> (Thomas Fruin)
Subject: Re: Why are MAC/SCSI disks so expensive?
The Seagate 4026 is a full-height 5.25" drive without controller.
The HD20SC uses a Seagate 225N, a half-height 5.25" drive with embedded SCSI
controller.
------------------------------
From: MACINTOUCH
Subject: RE: MIDI Interfaces
Date: 24-NOV 22:30 Network Digests
To: Joe Mastroianni <JDM%SMVL%rca.com@RELAY.CS.NET>
Subject: MIDI Interfaces
There are some solid Mac MIDI products, and I'm not as up to date as some
other folks on PAN, Delphi, and writing for the "MacInTouch" newsletter, but
Opcode has good hardware and software, including patch librarians and a
sequencer; Mark of the Unicorn has pretty amazing software for sequencing
and music notation; and Southworth has a potent package combining a full-blown
MIDI hardware interface and an extensive integrated software package. I guess
Passport has a MIDI interface as well, and Digidesign has amazing sampling
controller programs for the E-mu and Ensoniq synths. I'd recommend getting
on PAN or Delphi for better info.
Ric Ford
------------------------------
From: MDELUGG
Subject: Comparisons:PASCAL
Date: 24-NOV 22:29 Programming
Hey all,
I'm thinking of buying a PASCAL and would like to hear from anyone with
experience. Both TURBO & LIGHTSPEED sound good. I'm a beginner & would like
something not too hostile <smile>. Also, any books I should read??
Thanks,
Mikey!
------------------------------
From: MOUSEKETEER
Subject: RE: Comparisons:PASCAL (Re: Msg 15170)
Date: 24-NOV 22:50 Programming
A beginner at Pascal or a beginner at programming in general? If you have
learned any other language, I would guess you could get up to speed
fairly quickly with either.
If a beginner at any language, I think the best approach might be finding
a good book to learn with, using the appropriate version of Pascal,
and deciding later to switch flavors if need be.
While I was decent many years ago at some coding, when i recently wanted to
learn Pascal, I found Kronick's book "Macintosh Pascal Illustrated, The
Fear and Loathing guide" a painless way to learn. If you could pick up a
Mac Pascal cheap somewhere now that Lightspeed is out, it might be a very
effective introduction.
------------------------------
From: DDUNHAM
Subject: RE: Comparisons:PASCAL (Re: Msg 15170)
Date: 25-NOV 03:26 Programming
Turbo Pascal has been delayed until 1 Dec, according to InfoWorld. I'd stay
away from Borland based on their history of incompatible products (is Turbo
Pascal on the IBM really Pascal? Turbo Prolog isn't true Prolog, I hear) and
some of their attitudes.
------------------------------
From: PEABO
Subject: RE: Comparisons:PASCAL (Re: Msg 15170)
Date: 25-NOV 20:33 Programming
Get Lightspeed Pascal. It is great for debugging, the principal activity
involved in creating a program, and it produces decently efficient runnable
applications too.
peter
------------------------------
From: MOUSEKETEER
Subject: RE: Comparisons:PASCAL (Re: Msg 15210)
Date: 25-NOV 20:49 Programming
Just after my previous note regarding using Scott Kronick's nice book for
learning Pascal, and perhaps finding a cheap copy of Mac Pascal, I read in
MacTutor that "Lightspeed IS Macintosh Pascal, vastly upgraded to a highly
perfected programming environment." So, make it LS Pascal, and Kronick's
book....grin.
Alf
------------------------------
From: HSTARR
Subject: RE: Comparisons:PASCAL (Re: Msg 15210)
Date: 26-NOV 00:24 Programming
But watch out for 68020's -- Lightspeed Pascal is a definite no-no on this for
now. However, all's hoping Think will do something about it, SOON.
------------------------------
From: DWB
Subject: RE: MPW observations (Re: Msg 1020)
Date: 24-NOV 21:48 Programming Techniques
I've been keeping a list of complaints and greivances about MPW and dropping it
in the appropriate folkslaps. The only real major compliants I have are the
automatic string conversion and compile times.
Being an old time unix hacker, I like the user interface. It shows
what can be done in an integrated environment. Some things are much
better done with a command line interface, some are much better done
with a mouse. I think they've done an outstanding job of combining
the two.
I'm not especially found of the wildcard characters they've chosen,
but I understand why the chose them. UNIX tends to use characters
which are much more normal (*.?[]()) and therefore much more likely to
be used in normal circumstances. Thus you have to quote them
frequently. MPW chose obscure characters, thus ensuring that you will
rarely have to quote them. I mean, when was the last time you had an
equivalence sign (the double squiggly) in a program? As far as
showing people things on delphi is concerned one possibility might be
to write a filter to turn the MPW characters into their UNIX
equivalents (or some other set which is standard ascii) and a
corresponding filter to unconvert them on the mac.
Keep working at it. Once you get used to the quirks of the system you will
probably find that the power and versatility you gain will be well worth a
little added effort.
David
------------------------------
From: LOGICHACK
Subject: RE: MPW observations (Re: Msg 1018)
Date: 25-NOV 17:52 Programming Techniques
Joe:
I think Apple is targetting MPW for their own internal use as well as
being a standard in Macintosh software development. Since these are
the tools that Apple will be using to develop their own software, it
must have the power to build large systems like the 128K ROMs, MPW
itself (I'm guessing), and other Apple system tools and applications.
(Don't I sound like I work there??) It might be too complex for the
average Joe (pun intended) but it is probably aimed at doing
everything that has to be done on the Mac..
Just my 2 cents worth...
Paul :)
PS: I like it.
------------------------------
From: PEABO
Subject: RE: MPW observations (Re: Msg 1020)
Date: 25-NOV 20:11 Programming Techniques
Actually I don't mind having a powerful tool, and judging from the
editor primitives, it is possible to do some very nifty things with
it. However, I think there could also be some better online support,
even if only in the form of a help menu. (Of course this would be
very awkward for folks who are trying to use MPW on a dual 800K floppy
system.) One of the things I really appreciate about the Mac is not
having to remember commands. All the other machines I use make me
remember commands, and my brain gets fried.
peter
------------------------------
From: PEABO
Subject: RE: MPW observations (Re: Msg 1024)
Date: 25-NOV 20:17 Programming Techniques
I *do* especially like the way Rez works. It allows you to use a single source
file for your C code (Pascal? what is that? :-) ) to hold both the program and
its resources! This solves a problem I have with defining strings in one place
and referencing them in another. I am thinking that the right thing to do is
use LightspeedC to compile the source code and use MPW running a Rez script to
compile all the resources.
peter
------------------------------
From: MACINTOUCH
Subject: RE: boot problem (Re: Msg 15181)
Date: 25-NOV 10:26 Bugs & Features
I didn't want to bring this up, because it's an unlikely, nasty
problem, but I'm wondering if there's some kind of timing problem. I
guess, for laughs, I'd try defragmenting your startup disks and
rewriting the boot blocks. (Defragmenting can be done by selecting all
files and dragging to a newly initialized disk).
winging it,
Ric
------------------------------
From: SYNTHONY
Subject: RE: boot problem (Re: Msg 15194)
Date: 25-NOV 23:49 Bugs & Features
Well, I have tried copying parts or all of the non booting 'startup'
disks to a new disk, but then it also does not boot. Though other
disks don't boot, several of the disks I use most often have Multiplan
on them, and NONE of the copies I had made earlier of MP will now
boot. I had used Copy II to make master disks (I hate key disks). I
put the applicatio{ on severial disks for use with other applications,
now no go. I wonder if that could have anything to do with it
(Multiplan I mean, other copied software seems to be fine)?
Bill
------------------------------
From: MACINTOUCH
Subject: RE: boot problem (Re: Msg 15226)
Date: 26-NOV 09:50 Bugs & Features
This sounds more like a disk drive alignment problem to me. Any chance of that
being the case?
Ric
------------------------------
From: SYNTHONY
Subject: RE: boot problem (Re: Msg 15239)
Date: 26-NOV 22:17 Bugs & Features
UNfortunately, the disks act the same on BOTH macs upgraded to 1 meg... this is
really bizarre! BTW, my copied MacDraw (and original) also do not boot, but
will run if soft booted with ctrl, option, double-click on the disks finder.
Bill
------------------------------
From: MACINTOUCH
Subject: RE: Re: Mac Engineering
Date: 25-NOV 10:24 Network Digests
To: <INFOEARN%HLERUL5.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU> (Thomas Fruin)
Subject: Re: Mac Engineering
I recently heard something from a reliable source that would add credence to
your rumor that DEC may OEM the Mac. I didn't know whether it was DEC or
another company in the area, but DEC seems like the best bet.
Ric Ford
"MacInTouch"
------------------------------
From: MACINTOUCH
Subject: San Francisco expo
Date: 25-NOV 16:43 Business Mac
Hadn't seen the San Francisco MacWorld expo dates posted on the nets, so I
just checked on them. The show is to be at the Moscone Center on Jan 8, 9,
and 10. (Thur., Fri, Sat.) Mitch Hall, the show organizer is at
617-329-7466.
Ric
------------------------------
From: MACINTOUCH
Subject: Mac upgrade shaft
Date: 25-NOV 23:10 Business Mac
I just talked to another Mac owner tonight who got the well-known "upgrade
shaft." Like a number of other people I've talked to, he got his Mac 512
upgraded to a 512E, and 2 weeks later the Mac literally went up in smoke.
His dealer insisted that it was just "one of those things, nothing to do
with the upgrade." Yeah, right. Any of the technicians I've talked to don't
bother to check the voltage levels, ever (as they're supposed to do). What's
this guy's recourse? To grin and bear it?
*** flame on ***
I think it stinks that Apple isn't standing behind poorly designed components
that fail leaving customers with smoke and a potential fire, hundreds of
dollars of repairs, and a worthless computer.
*** flame off ***
Ric Ford
"MacInTouch"
------------------------------
From: FRIED
Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15218)
Date: 26-NOV 05:03 Business Mac
Apple DOES stand behind those smoking Macs. They stood behind mine when the
power supply fried a few weeks after upgrading to 512E. Indeed they did!
Unfortunately, they stood with their back to the problem. I called
and was told that they hadn't heard anything about a widespread
problem. Needless to say, I was a little disappointed in the company.
It's almost as if they're trying to emulate the bad parts of Big Blue
in the hope that the bottom line would begin to look Bluish. Well,
that's not the way to do it.
I know Apple reads this Forum, and I know they read about how
widespread this problem is on several other systems and in user group
newsletters. What hurts most is the knowledge that their denial of the
problem is clearly dishonesty --- not ignorance. Come to think of it,
there's something even worse than that. Apple KNOWS that WE know
they're handling this problem unethically, and they apparently don't
care a lot that we do.
Are they doing the right thing from a business perspective? Yes, they probably
are, at least in the short term, because I will continue to upgrade my Mac and
buy new ones as long as it's the best machine on the market, not only in
features, but also in quality. I let my Applecare lapse after the first year,
and I am not sorry; I've spent a lot less in repairs, even with the demise of
the inadequate power supply, than I would have on Applecare.
BUT, wait until there's a system that competes well with the Mac, one that
provides some migration path to make it relatively easy for me to recover some
of my software investment. I will hesitate to abandon Apple just about as long
as they hesitated to drop me and the other customers who were burned by the
company's failure to right some wrongs.
Bob
------------------------------
From: NANOCHIP
Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15240)
Date: 26-NOV 19:28 Business Mac
Ric>
Remember the gentleman at the Boston MacExpo who wore the PowerSupply around
his neck, complete with lemon attached, as if it were some mythical Albatros?!
It's pretty obvious that Apple is burying its corporate head in the sand
regarding the PITYFUL survival rate of the Mac's Power Supply boards. They
can't evn be EMBARRASSED into admitting the problem!
I had one go on a virgin 512K Mac at the ripe old age of 11 months. The
screen blacked out except tor a thin vertical line. Checked all the solder
connections, as per Forum msgs, but ended up replacing the board. I was told
by the tech guy at my Apple dealer that even if I knew which compoment was
bad (he suspected the flyback transformer), I couldn't get it from Apple
because they would not provide dealers with individual board-level components,
or their sources. Grrrrr.
How about MacInTouch doing a Mac Hardware T.L.C. article (Series?)? You
could point out problem areas of the Mac's hardware and the fixes...or even
better, proper preventive maintenance (!) to keep your Mac running.
I'd love to see a how-to article on the proper way to adjust the Mac's
PowerSupply to +5v at the memory.
<Chip
------------------------------
From: MACINTOUCH
Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15245)
Date: 26-NOV 19:58 Business Mac
Chip, old man, I'm waiting on a 2 or 4 MB upgrade from Dove, then I'm
going to call up my EE guru and borrow his digital VOM and we's gonna
start measuring. I want some RAM! In the meantime, I'm running a
Kensington Super Saver Mac fan, and I highly recommend it. I don't
know how much of the problem is heat and how much is power drain, but
I'm betting my $65 that the fan'll do something worthwhile.
Ric
------------------------------
From: MOUSE1
Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15246)
Date: 26-NOV 20:27 Business Mac
Here is the excerpt from Dec. MacWorld I mentioned in my Delphi note
to you: "Reports from readersa about short-lived Macintosh
power-supply boards led us to contact dealers around the country to
learn how wide spread the problem was. Service mgrs.& technicians
were nearly unanimous in calling the power supply burnout rate very
hight....most (service technicians() sssssssssssaid to consider
yourself luckky if your power supply lasts a year. Apple spokeswoman
Lisa Van Horn said upgrades cause the problem; the logic boards
swapped into the Macs for an upgrade pull a different load from the
power supply but technicians in the stores weren't alerted to make any
changes so the power supply could accomodate the new logic boards. At
press time, Apple planned to inform dealers by Nov. 1 how to perform
tests & make the proper adjustments to see that the power supply can
support the upgrade before the Mac is returned to its owner." Does
anyone here b elieve that.
------------------------------
From: PEABO
Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15236)
Date: 26-NOV 20:56 Business Mac
I inquired about LaserWriter Plus upgrade problems last summer and was
told that there were no problems with the upgrades. Now this may have
been after the problems were fixed, or it may not have been; it's a
bit hard to tell since Apple never made any announcement publicly.
peter
------------------------------
From: PEABO
Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15247)
Date: 26-NOV 21:35 Business Mac
I believe it. However, just because Apple distributes information about how to
do it doesn't mean that it will get done. I would like to believe that the
majority of approved Apple dealers would have their service act together ...
peter
------------------------------
From: MACINTOUCH
Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15250)
Date: 26-NOV 22:14 Business Mac
Ha ha hee hee hoo ho haa hee hoo ha !!!
Peter, have you ever gone into a service shop and talked to the stoned
youngsters who comprise the official Apple technician core? When you get an
IBM tech and not an Apple tech, because the Apple tech is doing something else
or is out on lunch break ??
R
------------------------------
From: SYNTHONY
Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15249)
Date: 26-NOV 22:27 Business Mac
Hi Peter, long time no talk to! I bought a LW and immediately had it
upgraded to a plus. The upgrade was done in October and works fine,
no problems. I had heard of the rom rumors, and waited until October
when my friend at the computer store said they were getting them in
and they seemed to be okay.
Bill
------------------------------
From: JIMH
Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15247)
Date: 26-NOV 23:33 Business Mac
Ric, apple announced to dealers, national accounts some time ago on apple link
to check voltages. if the stores arent doing it i think i would concentrate my
iire on the store techs, not apple. pin the store manager down, show him the
note from apple (i will try to remember to get it from apple link next time and
post it to you). see why they didnt do it. jim
------------------------------
From: MOUSEKETEER
Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15263)
Date: 27-NOV 02:07 Business Mac
Having remembered the mention Judy quoted from Macworld, it does seem
rather stupid of Apple to not take some responsibility for what is going
on. I suppose they realize we dear users, or most of us, (the rest of
us..grin) will put up with it to use the Mac, so our financial leverage
is pretty low....unless.....
As individual users, or even in a smallish quantity, we wouldn't pull much
weight with Apple on the issue. And despite my rad chic nature, I don't
think a "boycott" would work...we'd all do withdrawals after two days.
One area we might be able to get Apple's attention on the upgrade/flame
problem is to start gathering information on how many folks we know have
had the problem, in effect documenting where Apple is not doing a good
job with quality upgrades via their Authorized Dealers.
Ya see, 47th Street Photo, Executive Camera, and a bunch of other big time
discounters would love to be able to sell Apple gear, and would take a
lot less profit than the local dealer. Apple has prevented that happening
so far by showing that they need to control dealership sales to assure
quality service and support. If we suggested that the data collected on
this problem might be given to 47th Street Photo and crew to use in a
court case showing that Apple, while controlling sales and service through
it authorized dealers, was falling down on the job...well, a threat to
the authorized dealer network would likely get attention from Cupertino
much more readily than a single guy with a smoking Mac.
Agreed, it's a sneaky idea, but...
Alf
------------------------------
From: DWB
Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15245)
Date: 27-NOV 03:46 Business Mac
The next BMUG newsletter should have an article on how to adjust the power
supply and video circuitry. I wrote one and sent it to them and last I heard
they were going to put it in. If they don't (or tell me they aren't and/or that
it's OK anyway) I'll upload it here.
David
------------------------------
From: CSTERRITT
Subject: Discipline
Date: 25-NOV 20:23 Tools for Developers
Hello,
I'm looking for the program "Discipline" that Scott Knaster
mentions in his marvelous book, that checks the args to rom calls. If
anyone knows where it can be had (I'll pay if it isn't PD), I'd
appreciate a LETTER VIA EMAIL (I don't get on often enough here to get
a reply in time!)
Thanks a lot,
Chris Sterritt
CSterritt here, C.Sterritt on GEnie
------------------------------
From: DDUNHAM
Subject: RE: Discipline (Re: Msg 1028)
Date: 26-NOV 04:47 Tools for Developers
I use the Discipline feature in the latest TMON user area.
Email isn't any faster than forum messages; there is no message scroll on
Delphi.
------------------------------
End of Delphi Mac Digest
************************
-------