INFO-MAC-REQUEST@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA (Moderator David Gelphman...) (12/03/86)
INFO-MAC Digest Tuesday, 2 Dec 1986 Volume 5 : Issue 19
Today's Topics:
Segment Loader questions
MPW C, LSC compatibility?
New LSP Wishes
Re: Apple-Brand software
Servant .89
MacMan, the Inside Mac Database
camera desk accessory
Latest Mac Versions
D2R.hqx
GoneFishinDA.hqx
monthdayedit.hqx
MacDraw file of Starship Enterprise
LSC-CONFERENCE-1986.HQX
Object oriented editors
Re: Contacting Abaton
Word processor compatibility
TeXtures bug??
ExperCommon Lisp
NL product information
death knell for the 512E??
Mac user interface
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 86 16:04:32 PST
From: Rick Wong <rick@portia.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Segment Loader questions
I've been wondering about this for awhile, so I was wondering if someone
might have a "definitive" answer to this question . . .
The Segment Loader chapter of Inside Mac vol. IV states that if you know
your application won't be used on machines with the old 64K ROM, then you
can leave all your CODE segments (except CODE 1) unlocked -- this dras-
tically reduces heap fragmentation when the application runs on machines
with the new 128K ROM. If you want to maintain compatibility with the
old ROMs, however, Inside Mac seems to imply that you need to keep all
your CODE resources locked.
My question is: why? I thought that when the segment loader read in a
CODE resource, it automatically locked it, regardless of whether the locked
bit of the resource was set. In addition, my application seems to run fine
under the old ROMs, without having all the CODE resources locked (although
the heap is far uglier looking than it is under the new ROMs). The default
setting of the MPW linker leaves all CODE resources except CODE 1 unlocked,
so I suspect it IS okay to run such applications under the old ROMs, but I
would like to be certain before releasing any applications.
Thanks. A lot.
Rick Wong
rick@portia.stanford.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 86 09:50:15 PST
From: John Bruner <jdb@s1-c.arpa>
Subject: MPW C, LSC compatibility?
I recently purchased Lightspeed C, and I am considering the purchase
of MPW C as well. In the past, some people have suggested that it
is possible to prototype programs in LSC and use MPW C (whose code
quality is reputed to be much better) for the final product.
Is this really possible? Can one write Macintosh C code which can
be easily transported between the two environments? My previous
encounters with Macintosh C compilers lead me to believe that this
isn't likely.
I know that MPW C uses 4-byte integers and LSC uses 2-byte integers.
That doesn't bother me, because I've encountered it before (e.g.
writing code to run on PDP-11's and VAXes). What I do wonder about,
however, is the Toolbox interface. Does MPW use "glue routines" or
does it generate traps inline? If the latter, I assume that it
coerces "int"s to "short"s in order to be compatible with the trap
interface. This also suggests that fields within the various
data structures are defined as "short"s rather than "ints".
LSC defines ResType as a long, so that it can be passed by value.
How does MPW C define it?
Oh, one more thing. I'm going to need some assembly-language code,
and since LSC doesn't support inline assembly I'll need to create
separate source files, assemble them, and convert them to libraries.
Is the MPW assembler compatible with the MDS assembler, or would I
have to purchase both (one for LSC, one for MPW C)?
--
John Bruner (S-1 Project, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory)
MILNET: jdb@mordor [jdb@s1-c.ARPA] (415) 422-0758
UUCP: ...!ucbvax!decwrl!mordor!jdb ...!seismo!mordor!jdb
[ note from moderator: Version 1.5 of Lightspeed C is reported to allow
inline assembly language in a powerful way, e.g. using C variables in
the assembler such as MOVE.L varname,D0 where varname is a defined
C variable (something I've been able to do with Mach2 FORTH for quite
a while incidently). Although I haven't heard of anyone actually receiving
version 1.5 it is expect RSN (maybe called 'almost-there-ware'. DAVEG ]
------------------------------
Date: 2 Dec 86 16:17 EST
From: STERRITT%SCOM08.decnet@ge-crd.arpa
Subject: New LSP Wishes
One of the Lightspeed Pascal people mentioned in a recent net
posting that they have access to Info-Mac and are interested in
questions/suggestions/etc. I've been meaning to write this down and send it
off, and now I can get it directly to them, so here goes.
What I'd like to see in the editor is the ability to do what's
called either elesion or folding. What it is is the ability to mark a
range of text and "hide" it behind a comment, so all you see in the
(screen, at least) listing is the comment, instead of the whole hunk of
code. I often have several procedures in a file, and it would be
*wonderful* to be able to "hide" the ones I'm not working on, as I'm often
dealing with one at the bottom of the file, and its interaction with
another at the top of the file. If all the intermediate things were just
one line, it would really speed things up, and make it (mentally) neater.
Now I'm sure your first comment to me will be (* hey, idiot, just
put them things you don't wanna see in another file in the project *) which
is a great idea, and something I often do, but even still there tend to be
lots of support routines in each file that aren't external to the rest of
the world.
Thanks for listening,
chris sterritt
Sterritt%Scom15.decnet@ge-crd.arpa
C.Sterritt on Genie, 72247,1723 on C-Serve
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 86 23:22:02 est
From: rs4u#@andrew.cmu.edu (Richard Siegel)
Subject: Re: Apple-Brand software
"MacPascal is an interpeter; Lightspeed is a compiler, although a fast one.
It's probably better for most, but I don't see it as a direct replacement. "
An otherwise good post, but I take issue with that statement. Lightspeed
Pascal is a compiler, but it functions very much identically to Macintosh
Pascal, right down to the appearance of the screen. It costs the same as
Macintosh Pascal, but offers much more functionality. I would say that it is
an excellent direct replacement, and it's excellent for novice programmer and
experienced developer alike.
--Rich
I've no connection with THINK, other than as a satisfied user.
------------------------------
Date: 1 Dec 86 00:31:27 EST
From: Jeffrey Shulman <SHULMAN@RED.RUTGERS.EDU>
Subject: Servant .89
[ Uploaded from Delphi by Jeff Shulman ]
Name: SERVANT 0.89
Date: 30-NOV-1986 23:19 by BMUG
Here is Servant .89, the latest release of a new shell program written by
Andy Hertzfeld. This version is free of charge but expires Jan 31, 1987.
While it still lacks crucial functionality (like copying files), it should
be solid enough for regular use. Please report all repeatable bugs using
the "Print Bug Report" feature. The next major release
will be in late January. -- Andy
[ archived as
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>SERVANT-89.HQX
DAVEG
]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 86 11:21 PST
From: PUGH%CCV.MFENET@LLL-MFE.ARPA
Subject: MacMan, the Inside Mac Database
This is a DA to access a datafile that contains a complete
routine summary (calling sequence, description, and examples)
of Inside Mac. It is indespensible but huge. The database
takes over 500K so it is for hard disk users only. The binhexed
compressed Packit III file takes well over 400K, and that's what
I have posted.
I have found that it tends to leave things dangling in Lightspeed
Pascal so that after consulting it, you must quit and restart
LSP before you can run your program. If anyone has any better
ideas on how to fix this memory blockage problem, please let me
know.
Jon
pugh%ccv@lll-mfe.arpa
[ archived as
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>MACMAN-PART1.HQX
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>MACMAN-PART2.HQX
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>MACMAN-PART3.HQX
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>MACMAN-PART4.HQX
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>MACMAN-PART5.HQX
First remove the headers and tails on these files, paste them together
into one large file, then unbinhex.
DAVEG
]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 86 18:09:58 PST
From: <DAVEG@slacvm.bitnet>
Reply-to: DAVEG%SLACVM.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu
Subject: camera desk accessory
This is the Camera desk accessory which has been much discussed but
never posted. You set it to take a snapshot of the screen after so much
time has elapsed and it does just that. Now you can take a snapshot of
the screen with a menu down. David Gelphman
[ archived as
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>DA-CAMERA.HQX
DAVEG
]
------------------------------
Date: Mon 1 Dec 86 23:07:37-EST
From: Carlos A Albuerne <CU.ALBUERNE@CU20B.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject: Latest Mac Versions
THOUGHT THIS MIGHT BE OF INTEREST:
LATEST MACINTOSH SOFTWARE VERSION AS OF 28 NOVEMBER 1986 (from GEnie)
[ note from moderator: the version list in the archives has been replaced
by this more recent version DAVEG]
[ archived as
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>SOFTWARE-VERSIONLIST.TXT.1
DAVEG
]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 86 10:31:11 est
From: jonathan@mitre-gateway.arpa (Jonathan Leblang)
Subject: D2R.hqx
[uploaded from ngp by Jonathan Leblang]
The following is D2R, a program which converts the Data Fork of a file
to a resource. You set the Resource Type, the Resource ID, and the Resource
Name, and Voila! - you can write the resource out to a file.
I wrote this after all the articles posted regarding the conversion of the
data fork of a file to a resource. It was suggested that 'Rez' be used.
Since 'Rez' is not widely available, I thought "Why not write a program to
do it?".
This is Version 1.1 of D2R. The differences from Version 1.0 are...
1) Added a "Delete File" menu;
2) Now prompts the user if there is a resource of the same type and ID in the
target file;
3) You can now select a "Use Unique ID?" check box, so that a unique ID will
be used instead of a set ID. The advantage is that if you want to write many
resources out to a file, you can worry about their IDs later.
The LightspeedC source is available upon request.
/* Jason Haines ACSnet: baron@runx
* Sydney, Australia CSNET: baron@runx.oz
* ARPA: baron%runx.oz@seismo.css.gov
* UUCP:
* {enea,hplabs,mcvax,prlb2,seismo,ubc-vision,ukc}!munnari!runx.oz!baron
*/
[ archived as
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>UTILITY-DATA2RES.HQX
DAVEG
]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 86 10:31:45 est
From: jonathan@mitre-gateway.arpa (Jonathan Leblang)
Subject: GoneFishinDA.hqx
[uploaded from ngp by Jonathan Leblang]
[]
This is Gone Fishin', a Macintosh desk accessory. It is
written in LightspeedC. The DA file and a small document
are included. This program is free for non-commercial use.
It could be described as a combination screen saver/doodle pad/message
board. Source code can be made available if there is enough interest.
Please read the documentation. If you re-distribute the program,
please include the documentation. This program is not to be sold.
If you do not have an unpacking program I will send you the two
components separately.
Gone Fishin' (c) 1986 Free for Non-Commercial Use.
Wade S. Blomgren
UCSD - ACS
Mail Code B-028
La Jolla, CA 92093
(619) 534-1856
UUCP: ....!sdcsvax!sdacs!wade or ...!sdcsvax!net1!wade
This is a BinHex'd PackitII file, uncompressed, and not encrypted.
[ archived as
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>DA-GONEFISHING.HQX
DAVEG
]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 86 10:32:31 est
From: jonathan@mitre-gateway.arpa (Jonathan Leblang)
Subject: monthdayedit.hqx
[uploaded from ngp by Jonathan Leblang]
This application allows day and month names to be edited. Some format changes
can be made as well.
[ archived as
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>UTILITY-MONTHDAY-EDIT.HQX
DAVEG
]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 86 11:35:07 PST
From: <DAVEG@slacvm.bitnet>
Reply-to: DAVEG%SLACVM.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu
Subject: MacDraw file of Starship Enterprise
After reading the request for this on usenet, I chased it down and here
it is: a fairly detailed drawing of the Starship Enterprise in MacDraw
format. Hope someone finds it to be fun besides me.
David Gelphman BITNET address: DAVEG@SLACVM
Bin #88 SLAC ARPANET address: DAVEG@SLACVM.BITNET
Stanford, Calif. 94305 UUCP address: ...psuvax1!daveg%slacvm.bitnet
415-854-3300 x2538
usual disclaimer #432 applies: my employer apologies for the fact
that I have access to this net.
[ archived as
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>MACDRAW-ENTERPRISE.HQX
DAVEG
]
------------------------------
Date: 2 Dec 86 19:35:14 EST
From: Jeffrey Shulman <SHULMAN@RED.RUTGERS.EDU>
Subject: LSC-CONFERENCE-1986.HQX
[ Uploaded from Delphi by Jeff Shulman ]
Name: 86 NOV 16 LIGHTSPEEDC 2.0 CO
Date: 2-DEC-1986 03:47 by PEABO
This is the edited transcript of the LightspeedC 2.0 Conference held on 1986
November 16. MacWrite 4.5 format in Geneva (use font substitution if printing
on a LaserWriter).
[ archived as
[SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU]<INFO-MAC>LSC-CONFERENCE-1986.HQX
DAVEG
]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 86 20:12:34 est
From: wilson%eniac.seas.upenn.edu@cis.upenn.edu
Subject: Object oriented editors
I may just be confused by something, but several times I have seen comments
to the effect that there is no replacement to MacDraw around (with a few
references to the as yet unseen SuperPaint). What about MacDraft? Have
people simply not seen the recent versions of this program? Is there some
major problem with it? It seems to work as beautifully with our LaserWriter
as MacDraw does and allows much more flexibility with arcs, drawing circles,
and allows for arbitrary rotations. It also allows multiple page drawings
etc. As far as I can tell it is a very nice superset of MacDraw. Old versions
were slow and a little confusing for text items but the more recent versions
work quite nicely. It has also traditionally been copy protected though that
has recently changed (version 1.2a). It is a bit more expensive than MacDraw
but it's a really nice program.
(*** Warning personal biased plug approching ***)
In addition, I am currently working on an object oriented graphics DA. The
program is somewhat oriented towards those with a hacking nature as it
makes very few excuses for QuickDraw but tries to implement all of
it. For example, all drawing modes are implemented, pen width and height
are implemented separately, and all parameters of the various object types
are editable, so you can draw roundrects with any rounding you want (there
are some rather nasty QuickDraw bugs that show up in roundrects and you get
to play with those). There are some problems with this approach such as
each line of text is a separate object, and one discovers that QuickDraw on
the LaserWriter, isn't the same as QuickDraw on the Mac so the use of obscure
drawing modes doesn't always work. (Imagewriter works just fine, and the
drawing mode stuff is documented in Inside LaserWriter.) But I don't see that
this is a reason to make their use totatally unavailable in any sort of
reasonable manner, and might induce Apple to actually implement some of the
really useful ones like patXor on the LaserWriter. (For those of the non-
hacking persuasion, this mode causes overlapping portions of two objects
drawn in the same pattern to cancel each other.)
This DA will probabaly be available as shareware after Christmas and will be
quite inexpensive. It is also (hopefully) going to be available as an
application as it is going to be rather large (25-30K). It works wonderfully
on my MacPlus, but I understand that I am definitely pushing the limits. It
does not implement all of the special effect that MacDraw does because of size
limitations, however I think (of course) that it will have a reasonable
subset of them. It does have a couple extra features like access to the
actual order of objects so you can avoid playing extensive games with
Bring to Front and Send to Back.
Hope this has been of interest to someone,
Nathan Wilson
wilson@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
___
The above comments are mine and only mine.
------------------------------
Date: Tue 2 Dec 86 09:48:40-PST
From: Bill Berner <BERNER@Sushi.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Contacting Abaton
>> Thanks for the suggestion to check a company called "Abaton" for 5 1/4"
>> floppy drives for the Mac. I couldn't find them, however, after checking
>> several back issues of MacWorld and MacUser, and the 800- directory.
>> Anyone know how to find them, or any other company with such a drive?
On page 35 of the Macintosh Buyers Guide (Fall, '86), there is an ad
for the Abaton 5 1/4" disk drive that lets you "convert IBM files into
Macintosh files... and vice-versa."
The ad says, "The Abaton drive 5.25 allows you to use files created by
IBM (and compatibles), CP/M and Unix machines on your Macintosh. And,
likewise, you can use Macintosh created files with machines that
normally read only 5 1/4" diskettes."
Here's the address:
Abaton Technology Corporation
7901 Stoneridge Drive, Suite 500
Pleasanton, CA 94566 (415/463-8822)
Bill Berner
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 86 12:14:55 EST
From: LI700016%BROWNVM.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
Reply-to: LI700016%BROWNVM.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA
Subject: Word processor compatibility
I've seen many postings about the incompatibilities and inflexibilities
of word-processors on the Mac, and would like to mention a solution,
in hopes that some developers might use it (even though the PC camp has
worse problems than we do).
A problem with word processor compatibility is that each program uses data
structures and representations which are expressed in terms of *formatting*.
Formatting is by definition device-dependent, as well as dependent upon
personal taste, aesthetic sensitivity, and the requirements of publishers
to whom the author sends the document.
What, one might ask, is not so dependent? The answer is, the meaningful units
of linguistic discourse. The existence and significance of chapters,
paragraphs, block quotations, footnotes, book titles, foreign-language
quotations, lists, etc. do not depend on what printer is plugged in.
Thus, the solution is to let authors mark up their documents by indicating the
(hierarchical) boundaries of these units, and then use definitions to map
markers into device-specific and style-specific formatting. This is like
indirect addressing in programming, with similar advantages. And if
authors differ on some units' names, it's still trivial to convert; one
may define the new units, or do global changes on unit names.
A standard syntax called SGML has been developed for such tagging, and is
approved or nearly so by DoD ($$$), IRS, Amer Assoc of Publishers,
ANSI, and ISO. Word style sheets could comply if MS would (a) make them
hierarchical, so when you leave one unit you pop to the specs of the
containing unit, and (b) be able to write out straight ASCII with the
element names embedded appropriately (names longer than 2 chars would
be, uh, nice). It's not very hard for other wp's to comply, either.
Think how much nicer even MacWrite would be, if they stacked the last few
rulers, and had a special ruler called "POP" (a start), and then provided
names for specific rulers (much better). If they then let you write out
plain text with embedded ruler-names, we'd be nearly home free.
Steven J. DeRose
Dept. of Linguistics, Brown Un.
"The problem with What You See Is What You Get, is that what you see is
*ALL* you get." -- B. Kernighan (?)
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 86 22:09:00 EST
From: <bouldin@ceee-sed.ARPA>
Subject: TeXtures bug??
Reply-to: <bouldin@ceee-sed.ARPA>
I am trying to use the example letter format from Appendix E in the TeXbook.
It apparently, doesn't work with TeXtures. This is particularly disturbing
since I took the example letter.hdr and letter.tex files, uploaded to the
local vax and got it to run correctly. When the very same files are run
on the Mac, it says:
Runaway argument?
^^MSincerely,^^M^^MR. J. Drofnats^^MProfessor^^M^^M\ETC.
! File ended while scanning use of \getclosing.
<inserted text>
\par
<*>
? x
Any TeX wizards out there who can help. I freely admit that the TeX in the
letter format is well beyond my present comprehension. I just copied it in
and use it on the VAX, where it works perfectly.
Or, for that matter, I know that K&S get the info-mac stuff at least
occasionally. Any comments?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 86 12:49:27 PST
From: Stephen E. Miner <miner@spam.istc.sri.com>
Subject: ExperCommon Lisp
I just received the latest ExperNewsletter in the mail. The big news
is that ExperTelligence has announced ExperCommon Lisp. (This is the
new name for the long-awaited ExperLisp 2.0.) They plan to begin
shipping in about a week to people who ordered upgrades to the
original ExperLisp. Actually, they want registered owners to
re-register by filling out a new address card that comes with the
newsletter. (Maybe they're trying to stall for a little extra time?)
They told me over the phone that they just want to make sure that they
have the correct addresses. OK, so I'll have to wait a couple of more
weeks.
Here are some of the promises that have me interested:
* Common Lisp compatibility
* an extensible class system (for object-oriented programming)
* Toolbox support through predefined classes
* on-line symbolic debugger
* support for "stand alone" applications
* not copy-protected (since version 1.5)
I have to admit that I was quite disappointed by all of the bugs I
found in the old versions of ExperLisp, but I'm still hoping that this
new version succeeds. If anyone has any experience with ExperCommon
Lisp, I'd like to hear from you.
I have a hard time figuring out their marketing and pricing strategies
so please call them directly if you're interested. Basically, it's
pretty expensive even after you talk them into giving you a discount.
ExperTelligence can be reached by phone at:
(800) 828-0113 USA
(800) 826-6144 CA
-- Steve
miner@spam.istc.sri.com
* Insert your favorite disclaimer. *
------------------------------
Date: Mon 1 Dec 86 11:09:38-PST
From: Janet Lee <LEE@SRI-STRIPE.ARPA>
Subject: NL product information
Iam looking into natural language products or products which use
natural language (in some form) for personal computers. I would like
information (i.e. name, product developer, extent of natural language usage,
price, opinions, etc.) anyone might have on products which fit this
description. Please send your responses to lee@sri-stripe.arpa.
Thank you in advance.
Janet
P.S. If there is sufficient response I will post the results.
------------------------------
Date: 2 Dec 86 13:51:00 EST
From: <bouldin@ceee-sed.ARPA>
Subject: death knell for the 512E??
Reply-to: <bouldin@ceee-sed.ARPA>
Yesterdays Wa. Post had a 1/2 page ad offering half off on peripherals
purchased only with a 512E, up to a maximum rebate of $250 from Apple. I have
been wondering for some time when Apple will drop the 512E, and I think
this is a move to clear the shelves of inventory. Comments, confirmations,
or rebuttals anyone?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 86 10:34:36 pst
From: Julian Lebensold
From: <lebensold%capone.crim.cdn%ubc.csnet@RELAY.CS.NET>
Subject: Mac user interface
As part of an ongoing research project in user interface design
at the Centre de Recherche Informatique de Montreal we would very
much appreciate your response to the following question:
If you could change any aspect(s) of the Macintosh user interface,
what would you like to see changed?
In other words, what bugs you about the Mac user interface?
Examples include ideas related to the desktop metaphor; the use of
windows, their sizes, placement, default views; menus; and so on. We
are less interested in hardware related aspects such as color, keyboard
layout, etc.
I would appreciate responses addressed directly to me.
Thank you.
Julian Lebensold
------------------------------
End of INFO-MAC Digest
**********************