INFO-ATARI8@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU (Info-Atari Digest) (11/04/86)
Info-ATARI8 Digest Friday, October 31, 1986 Volume 86 : Issue 01
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Atari At Work
Re: Atari 850s
Re: Atari At Work
Re: Ataris At Work
Re: Ataris At Work
Re: Need KERMIT
Re: Need KERMIT
Comments on happy drives
Interfaces and Modems Question
Interfaces and Modems Question
Re: Atari 850s
boot mysteries
Re: rs-232 mod
Re: Ataris At Work
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Date: 29 Oct 86 17:16:16 GMT
From: tektronix!tekgen!tekigm!tekigm2!wrd@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Bill Dippert)
Subject: Atari At Work
To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu
I was called to task for not mentioning OMNIVIEW. OMNIVIEW has been available
for a couple of years and works with 3 wordprocessors: Atariwriter Plus,
OmniWriter and Letter Perfect and a database: Data Perfect and a new
communications program: OmniCom. OMNIVIEW is distributed by CDY (David Young)
and is a true 80 column adaptation for the Atari 8 bit machines. Furthermore I
was informed that John Scrutch of Atari has made the statement that the XEP80
Atari 80 column board/device will not make it out by Christmas (apparently
when originally announced last June, they stated it would be out by October).
This last sounds strange to me (would Neil @ Atari care to comment?) as I saw a
working model at the Atari exhibition here in Portland earlier this month. The
indications that I had then was that it would be out soon. Not being able to
take the box apart, I was not able to see the state of the circuit board, it
may have been an early prototype. The mechanical aspect of it was production
quality (case, cables, etc.).
Secondly, before I get many more blasts, I use both my Atari 8 bit machines and
my IBM XT primarily for wordprocessing, secondarily for telecommunications and
thirdly for spreadsheets. For both wordprocessing and telecommunications, the
Atari is equal to or better than the XT. For the amount of spreadsheets that I
use, the Atari is just as good as the XT, but I don't create spreadsheets nine
yards wide with an infinite amount of forulas, etc. I still maintain that for
general office type work (i.e. wordprocessing and light spreadsheeting) that
the Atari 8 bit is as good as the XT. (Have you ever looked at the lettering
that a color monitor IBM gives out? Huge letters with many layers of bland
pixels!) The letters that Atarwriter Plus may be a little crude, but they are
as readable as the XT, IN MY OPINION! I have not personally seen OMNIVIEW
letters so cannot comment, I have seen Letter Perfect and PaperClip and they
are all as legible or better then the XT color letters.
If you are extensively into programming (in c or other) then probably most of
the comments that I hear are correct, the ST outperforms both IBM and Atari 8
bit machines. Certainly the ST is superior to the 8 bit for CAD. If we are
going to get into a general micro discussion, however, I agree that we should
switch to net.micro.
--Bill Dippert--
------------------------------
To: Rick Genter <rgenter@labs-b.bbn.com>
Subject: Re: Atari 850s
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 29 Oct 86 14:15:52 -0500.
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 86 11:14:28 EST
From: jhs@mitre-bedford.ARPA
I bought my 850 some months ago from CSC, Hightstown, NJ. Phone is (609)
448-8889. Their price was $109. I found them to be very helpful and quick to
respond to my order.
-John Sangster
jhs@mitre-bedford.arpa
------------------------------
Date: 29 Oct 86 17:19:46 GMT
From: tektronix!tekgen!tekigm!tekigm2!wrd@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Bill Dippert)
Subject: Re: Atari At Work
To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu
Sorry, make that "blank" pixels -- anyone who has ever used an IBM color
monitor will know what I am talking about. All Atari (ST and X-) are
infinitely better when it comes to screen graphics (alpha numeric or other).
--Bill Dippert--
------------------------------
Date: 29 Oct 86 19:25:04 GMT
From: tektronix!tekgen!tekigm!tekigm2!wrd@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Bill Dippert)
Subject: Re: Ataris At Work
To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu
Somehow my great IBM XT lost a line or two in my previous transmission. The
user groups that I referenced were: Portland Atari Club, Portland Oregon;
Eugene (Oregon) Atari Computer Enthusiasts; and SPACE which I believe stands
for Seattle Puget-Sound Atari Computer Enthusiasts. There probably are others
also in the PNW, but these are the big three.
--Bill--
------------------------------
Date: 29 Oct 86 19:10:40 GMT
From: tektronix!tekgen!tekigm!tekigm2!wrd@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Bill Dippert)
Subject: Re: Ataris At Work
To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu
In article <423@uwmacc.UUCP>, demillo@uwmacc.UUCP (Rob DeMillo) writes:
===>Much deleted from Rob's previous posting<===
> You just destroyed your original argument: that IBM's were bad things because
> you had to buy add-ons all the time, and that you didn't have to do that
> for Atari 8 bit machines...
>
Maybe I was not as clear as I should have been, yes, sometimes you have to buy
add-ons for an Atari, or a Commodore or an IBM, etc. (Read open architecture
or whatever you want to call it.) Add-ons for Atari are merely cable plugins
for the most part. They usually do not involve taking your computer apart to
add boards, flip dip switches, etc. Granted the early 400/800 was an exception
-- but it was a true open architecture and for the most part all you did was
add boards. What I was trying to say was that for the most part what I either
had built in in my Atari or could add with a cable type plug in unit, is not
true with the IBM XT that I use at work. The IBM requires not only that I add
new cards but also that I often must reconfigure it either thru software or
more often thru dip switches. Have you ever tried to figure out first of all
where the damn dip switches are, secondly which one dip switch you want and
thirdly which switch on the dip switch needs to be off and which ones need to
be on? Believe me, it's a pain in the ***.
> >> But what about the capabilities as a microcomputer, you ask? Well, the
> >> IBM has the 8-bit beat here, too. Say you want to hook a standard printer
> >> up to your 1200XL; what do you do? Call mail-order place after mail-order
> >> place, trying to find somebody who knows what kind of cable you need; then
> >> pay $59.95, only to discover that the 1200XL is different somehow than the
> >> rest of Atari's 8-bit machines, so you have to go through the whole cycle
> >> again.
Cables for the Atari line are available in this area as readily or more readily
then for the IBM and there is no difference between the 1200XL and any other
Atari as far as cabling goes, the only difference is in the OS.
>
> And how many companies do you think make/support serial (RS232) printers
> as opposed to Centronix style parallel printers...?
This comment loses me, I use a centronix parallel style cable/printer port on
my Tek 4107, IBM-XT and all Atari's. Granted for about $150 you can add a
board to an Epson to make it serial. What is your point?
>
> Are you serious? The Centronix parallel cable with a DB25 connector has
> got to be *the* most common cabling connection available...
Probably should be, but except for authorized IBM dealers, it is not that
common in the Portland area. Admittedly, the most uncommon cable to find is
centronix to centronix. Recently tried to obtain 5 of them for some Tek 4107's
and ended up having Egghead Software custom make some for us.
>
> >> And speaking of software, the IBM has just about every micro I know about
> >> beat cold in both public domain software and commercial software, in both
> >> quality and quantity. That may be only because of the perceived usage of
> >> the respective machines, but frankly, I would not even *think* of trying
> >> to market a serious program for the 8-bit Atari, if only because of what
> >> I know about the, um, "habits" of local Atari users with regard to software
> >> piracy.
I won't comment on this as more informed persons on the net have already been
countering this argument. There is some concern of quantity vs quality, and
most User groups have a lot of each (Atari, or IBM user groups).
> ...um, again, I ask: are you serious? Atari 8 bits may have a lot of software,
> but nowhere near the about IBM PC/XTs do. There is a book published that lists
> useable PD software for the IBM, sources, and where to find it. It is 1210
> pages of very, very tiny print...
Again, I only am aware of what the various user groups have available,
believe me in the PNW we have a lot of PD software available thru the
user groups. land Atari Club, Seattle Puget-Sound Atari Computer
Enthusiasts, etc.)
> >I agree that piracy is deplorable, but I doubt that anyone does not have some
> >pirated software.
> ...excuse me?
> Yea, and if I want out-of-print books, I usually rip them off from
> the library, rather than looking for them in used book stores...
I hate to push the issue, but where do you find "used software stores" and
isn't it just as illegal to sell software as it is to copy it? I do not go out
of my way to obtain illegal software, I try buying it first. In fact I do not
ever deliberately obtain illegal software, but I am sure that I have downloaded
software from a BBS that was. I just have no idea how to identify it as such.
Software does not have a tag saying, this software is illegal copied software.
How do you decide that what you have downloaded from a BBS is pirated and
should not be used, but erased? My crystal ball does not read software for
illegality. And again, I have never heard of pirated business type software,
but am aware that many, many games are copied illegally. So I generally stay
clear of games, but for my kids, I have downloaded games from BBSs and I have
absolutely no idea what is pirated and what is legitimate. None of the game
titles are familar from the software that I have seen at my local computer
store. So before you get on your soap box about using pirated software, tell
me how you figure out what is nice and what is pirated?
>
> Don't get me wrong, but I have both an IBM XT and an Atari ST. The ST is
> superior to the XT (even though I have the XT "suped-up") in almost
> every way, shape and form. But if you believe that any 8 bit machine
> is every bit as useable as a 16 bit machine, you must not use the machine
> for anything more than hobby computing...
>
> ...and if that sounds snobbish, I apologize...but I think, per chance, that
> it is true...
>
> --
> --- Rob DeMillo
My last comment is that I wish that Rob would go to one of the Atari Computer
Faires now being organized on the West Coast (San Jose and Portland have
occurred, but more are coming including Seattle). There is a form of Pascal for
the 8 bit (Turbo Pascal) that supposedly is a full set (or whatever the term
is) and there are CAD programs available now that work, look nice and do not
have the mathematical errors in them that Rob seems to think. As for the ST,
try looking at Real CADD from Generic Software (what a company name!)--it is
exceptional for use on either the IBM or the ST, but the ST is super looking.
One other comment, since when is the IBM PC a 16 bit machine? I always thought
of IBM PC (and XT) as being 8 bitters, also. I believe that the IBM AT is a 16
bitter, albeit not a 68000 chip.
--Bill Dippert--
Disclaimer: I do not have stock in Atari, Commodore or IBM, my opinions
expressed are my own and do not represent Tektronix, or any computer vendor,
manufacturer or supplier. And I definitely support the viewpoint of ADAPSO.
------------------------------
To: ihnp4!houxm!houxv!gcl@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (G.LAYBURN)
Subject: Re: Need KERMIT
In-Reply-To: Your message of 28 Oct 86 15:24:10 +0000.
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 86 00:01:02 EST
From: jhs@mitre-bedford.ARPA
There is a PD vt100 emulator called VT10SQ (as in 10**2) but it doesn't
support kermit. There may be a variant of it with xmodem, but I haven't been
able to make the one I have work even though its name suggests it has xmodem
(VT10NH.XMO).
David Young of CDY Consulting is now offering a really nice enhancement of
the VT100 emulator called OmniCom. His DOES have kermit and xmodem and soon
will have data capture and send-from-file features. I might add that OmniCom
has the nicest keypad arrangement and the most flexible key definition editing
facilities I have seen. I now have my XL set up so it is just about as easy
to use as my "real" VT103 at work, and still it is very consistent with the
PD VT10SQ in case I have to use that on a non-upgraded XL.
However, CDY's version is commercial and, in keeping with David's business
philosophy and way of dealing with the whole copy protection issue, requires
his OMNIVIEW chip to run. On the other hand, he provides a very nice
80-column word processor FREE with the chip, making the price hardly more than
you pay for most of the commercial word processors out there...and OmniWriter
runs with OMNIVIEW's built-in 80-column display. The availability of OmniCom
with kermit and xmodem is sort of the final straw that makes OMNIVIEW
irresistable!
I've been using OMNIVIEW256, the XL version designed to support the 256KXL
board, for a number of months now and find it makes all the difference in the
world for word processing.
CDY is at 421 Hanbee, Richardson TX 75080. Phone is (214) 235-2146.
I have no financial interest in CDY Consulting.
-John Sangster
jhs@mitre-bedford.arpa
------------------------------
Date: 29 Oct 86 13:18:54 GMT
From: motown!mergvax!rfpcs@bellcore.com (Rich Filandro)
Subject: Re: Need KERMIT
To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu
>
>
>
> If anyone has a copy of Kermit(or any other communications program) for
> the atari 800, please send me a mail address and I will send you a floppy disc.
>
> Thanks in Advance
> George Layburn (201)949-4534
I also would love a copy of this program and will provide the disk as well.
Thanx
Rich Filandro (516)434-2694
------------------------------
Date: 29 Oct 86 15:53:46 GMT
From: motown!mergvax!rfpcs@bellcore.com (Rich Filandro)
Subject: Comments on happy drives
To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu
I have a 130XE and am considering purchasing the new rev 7 happy modification
for my 1050 drive. I'd like to hear from the net on goods and bads for this
newest revision from Happy Computing. Would I be better off with something
else, say the duplicator??!? I await your response.
PS
I and my company are new users of the net and I look forward to
it's use.
Thanx
Rich Filandro
------------------------------
Date: 30 Oct 86 13:41:16 GMT
From: sabre!zeta!mb2c!edsdrd!web@petrus.bellcore.com (William E Bejcek)
Subject: Interfaces and Modems Question
To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu
I currently have a 48K Atari 800 with a 1050 Disk Drive and a APE-FACE
interface (parallel port) for my printer. I want to buy a modem for this
system. I really haven't decided on 300 baud or 1200 yet, but, lets
just persue both routes for now.
If I go with 300 baud, it seems like the simplest thing to do is to go
get something that I can daisy chain in with the existing equipment that
comes complete with software and the like. Any suggestions? I was kinda
thinking about the 1030.
If I go with 1200 baud, it seems like I have to do two things. Get a new
interface and pick a modem. Is this really true, or does someone make a
1200 baud modem that I can daisy chain in without addition hardware? If not,
does any one have suggestions on an interface to buy? Is the old 850 the
only device, or is there something else that can replace my current APE-FACE
interface or co-exist with it? If I can figure out what is available for
interfaces, I think I can figure out what 1200 baud modem to buy.
Thanks in advance,
--
William E. Bejcek - Electronic Data Systems
USENET: ... ihnp4!mb2c!edsdrd!web
... cbosgd!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!mb2c!edsdrd!web
------------------------------
Date: 30 Oct 86 13:41:16 GMT
From: sabre!zeta!mb2c!edsdrd!web@petrus.bellcore.com (William E Bejcek)
Subject: Interfaces and Modems Question
To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu
I currently have a 48K Atari 800 with a 1050 Disk Drive and a APE-FACE
interface (parallel port) for my printer. I want to buy a modem for this
system. I really haven't decided on 300 baud or 1200 yet, but, lets
just persue both routes for now.
If I go with 300 baud, it seems like the simplest thing to do is to go
get something that I can daisy chain in with the existing equipment that
comes complete with software and the like. Any suggestions? I was kinda
thinking about the 1030.
If I go with 1200 baud, it seems like I have to do two things. Get a new
interface and pick a modem. Is this really true, or does someone make a
1200 baud modem that I can daisy chain in without addition hardware? If not,
does any one have suggestions on an interface to buy? Is the old 850 the
only device, or is there something else that can replace my current APE-FACE
interface or co-exist with it? If I can figure out what is available for
interfaces, I think I can figure out what 1200 baud modem to buy.
Thanks in advance,
--
William E. Bejcek - Electronic Data Systems
USENET: ... ihnp4!mb2c!edsdrd!web
... cbosgd!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!mb2c!edsdrd!web
------------------------------
From: hyc@umix.cc.umich.edu (Howard Chu)
To: Rick Genter <rgenter@labs-b.bbn.com>
Subject: Re: Atari 850s
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 29 Oct 86 14:15:52 -0500.
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 86 03:18:19 EST
Try Southern Software Systems, in Birmingham Alabama. They're at
205-956-0986. 24 hour phone for orders. (You can't get questions
answered at 2am, which is unfortunate for people like me...)
I have no financial interest in their business, other than wondering
how cheap their prices are compared to everyon elses'... I ordered
a large amount of stuff (large for me, right?) from them and am
fairly satisfied. Just whatever you do, don't send a personal check.
They take far too long to clear...
-- Howard Chu
hyc@umix.cc.umich.edu
ihnp4!umich!umix!hyc
------------------------------
Date: 29 Oct 86 21:41:37 GMT
From: kaoa01.dec.com!curzon@decwrl.dec.com
Subject: boot mysteries
To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu
Can anyone help me figure out the boot sectors of an Atari disk?
ie: how the "boot" ROM routines work;
what parameters are picked up from the disk;
where are they located;
what functions served by the boot sector code vs
the DOS itself;
differences between the boot sectors on a DOS disk
and on a "boot" disk;
and anything other tidbits!
Thanks
Dick Curzon
Digital Equipment of Canada
PO Box 13000
Kanata Ontario K2K 2A6
Canada.
(DEC E-NET) KAOA01::CURZON
(UUCP) {decvax, ucbvax, allegra}!decwrl!kaoa01.dec.com!curzon
(ARPA) curzon%kaoa01.DEC@decwrl.ARPA
------------------------------
Date: 31 Oct 1986 07:34:07 EST
Subject: Re: rs-232 mod
From: C. David Young <DYOUNG@A.ISI.EDU>
To: ihnp4!chinet!cabbie@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU (Richard Andrews)
In-Reply-To: <691@chinet.UUCP>
Rich,
If you will get the hardware going I will be glad to do the software.
I would make it emulate the 850 and 1050. This time of year I am
pretty busy but I should have time enough in January.
David Young
------------------------------
Date: 31 Oct 86 11:01:17 EST (Friday)
Subject: Re: Ataris At Work
In-reply-to: <423@uwmacc.UUCP>
To: info-atari8@su-score.arpa
From: Dan Fleysher <Fleysher.wbst@Xerox.COM>
Can we call a truce on this subject? I'm getting tired of this
discussion and I think the important points have already been made. Why
add any more to ARPA's congestion problem?
Dan
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End of INFO-ATARI8 Digest
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