RDROYA01@ULKYVX.BITNET (04/12/86)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 86 09:15 EST
From: (1) <RDROYA01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Organization: University of Louisville
Subject: ST based lap computers: A query.
To: info-atari16@su-score.stanford.edu
X-Original-To: info-atari16@su-score.stanford.edu
Quote of the week: "What do you do when the people you knew were the plastic
that melted and the chromium too? / Who are the brain
police?"
-frank zappa
Does anyone out there think Atari will ever develop a lap computer based
on the ST? I would love to have a 68000 computer that would fit in my
backpack. It would be swell if it had something other than an lcd display,
and as far as i'm concerned battery life is not as important as being able
to carry the @#$%~ thing from one office (i.e. home) to another (i.e. !home).
Are there real practical reasons why this cannot be accomplished? The market
in PC lap computer seems pretty active, so there's money to be made. The last
I heard (about 18 months ago) the Packard Goose was promising such a computer,
running un*cs and p*m, within the year. Time passes. . .
What do you ATARIers think?
RDROYA01@ULKYVX.BITNETrb@ccird2.UUCP (04/22/86)
In article <8604121914.AA24184@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> RDROYA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@SU-Forsythe.ARPA writes: > >Does anyone out there think Atari will ever develop a lap computer based >on the ST? I would love to have a 68000 computer that would fit in my >backpack. >Are there real practical reasons why this cannot be accomplished? The market >in PC lap computer seems pretty active, so there's money to be made. The current "minimums" for a "real computer" seem to be a full travel qwerty keyboard, 80 column by 25 line display (640/400 graphics preferred), 400K non-volitile storage, and 1/2 to 1 meg volitile storage for ram disks, and general program usage. Many would also include a hard disk in their "minimums" list as well. Getting all of that into a single "box" that is both light-weight, and compact, is no easy chore. Actually, the 1040 *almost* qualifies. The biggest problem is getting some form of high resolution display that won't make you squint like crazy, for a price that isn't rediculously high. Currently, there are 4 approaches: LCD's are almost high enough resolution, but a 640x400 mono display can be very expensive, and requires some extra driver electronics. Back lighting has been found to improve immunity to glare, but still, a fairly dark room is reccomended :-). Flat plasma displays are light and easy to carry, but again, they are not cheap. They are also a little power hungry for battery use. You could use a "squint screen" such as a 4" b/w tv/monitor. There are a few available for reasonable prices (DAC has some for about $50), but unless you are fond of getting your nose about 12" from the screen (ideal viewing distance is 3xwidth of screen), the fatigue can get quite uncomfortable. I suppose you could mount it on a small tripod :-). Last option would be a "viewfinder" such as those used on VCR cameras. In this case, there are two problems, one being the ability to "mount" the device near the eye (a "helmet" has been suggested :-). The second is the eye fatigue of having the finder on one eye for several hours at a time. There is a market for a "lap computer", or more acurately a "coat pocket computer", which can have the keyboard, monitor, and drive "plugged in", but as the price of computers goes down, especially to the level where the individual rather than the company can make the "home" purchase, the trend seems to be to "communicate instead of commute" the computers. When you stop to think about it, the bulkiest, and most expensive parts of the computer are not the CPU/RAM but the peripherals. The keyboard, monitor, disk drive, and mouse are the expensive and bulky parts of the package, the "main board" of the ST could fit in a coat pocket (let alone your back-pack). There are "compromise systems" with features such as "chicklet keyboards", extra small displays, limited memory, slow mass storage. These are acceptable to a small market of "traveling salesmen" type people who just want to "dial in" for some quick figures, but not for heavy, regular use. Two novel keyboard approaches have also been used. In one case, a dvorak layout makes a "chicklet keyboard" 8"x3" very useful. In another case a "one handed" keyboard unit was squashed into something about 4"x5"x2". Notes taken "in the field" could be downloaded via RS-232 or modem lines. It also had a 5x1 character diplay. At $500, it was an "expensive toy", at $50 (what it would cost to make today), it might be a "useful tool". One alternative to mass storage is very high speed communications. Perhaps when "digital lines" become more readily available, portable computers will use a "host" as the "disk drive". As to the original question, "will Atari make a 'lap-top'?", I don't suppose they will. The possibility of someone makeing an electronic notepad which can "feed" the Atari? The probability is very good. In the long term, my guess is that Atari will drop the direct floppy and printer interface, expand the DMA interface to full SCSI, and run the one cable out of the "keyboard/console" box. One rumor has it that the TT (Thirtytwo Thirtytwo) will connect to the ST, which will work as a "Very Intellegent Terminal/Workstation" as well as a stand-alone computer.
porter@cbmvax (04/26/86)
> In article <8604121914.AA24184@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> RDROYA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@SU-Forsythe.ARPA writes: > > > >Does anyone out there think Atari will ever develop a lap computer based > >on the ST? I would love to have a 68000 computer that would fit in my > >backpack. > >Are there real practical reasons why this cannot be accomplished? The market > >in PC lap computer seems pretty active, so there's money to be made. > > The current "minimums" for a "real computer" seem to be a full travel > qwerty keyboard, 80 column by 25 line display (640/400 graphics > preferred), 400K non-volitile storage, and 1/2 to 1 meg volitile > storage for ram disks, and general program usage. Many would also > include a hard disk in their "minimums" list as well. Getting all of > that into a single "box" that is both light-weight, and compact, is no > easy chore. > True. There are some limitations with portable technology. After having designed a portable for Commodore, here are some of my thoughts... 1. Motor (in disk drives) and Batteries are mutually exclusive. Solid state mass storage is the only way. The entire Commodore LCD computer ran on less than 100mA from 4 AA cells. The lowest power disk drives today are FIVE times this hungry, just for the disk! Here we have the classic case of the tale wagging the dog. Hard disks...forget it. 2. LCD displays are still expensive. An 80x25 line display adds about $300 to the list price of a computer. It just can't compare to a $99 monochrome monitor. Color LCD look terrible. There have been recent advances in LCD technology called "SuperTwist" which have a much better viewing angle, and a yellow/green background with black letters. But the electronics to drive this display is still VERY costly. (16 plus 100 pin flat packs)! 3. CMOS memory is always one generation behind NMOS memory (DRAMS). How's 64 - 28 pins packages the size of an EPROM hit you for 512K? Customers of course don't understand why you can buy a Tandy 1000 PC clone with monitor for $999, but still you must pay TWICE this for a portable PC clone. (Toshiba's got a new one out) 4. Mice. All these new computers have mice. What in the $%&# do you do with a mouse on a portable computer? "Excuse me, can I borrow your leg to roll my mouse on?" Nice pick up line, eh? Or, "Now which pocket did I put that mouse in...hummm...". 5. Does anyone make a CMOS 68000? Well, there have been alot of manufacturers looking for the magic formula for portable computers, but NO ONE has found it yet. I am afraid we must wait for technology. Jeff Porter Commodore Engineering
daveh%cbmvax@cbmvax.UUCP (04/29/86)
I think Hitachi makes-or-will-be-making a CMOS 68000, though I hear that
Hitachi 68000's in general may be a bit weird in the way they work as
compared to everyone else's 68000's.
--
Dave Haynie {caip,inhp4,allegra,seismo}!cbmvax!daveh
"There, beyond the bounds of your weak imagination
Lie the noble towers of my city, bright and gold"
-Genesis