ddern@bbncch (06/21/85)
From: Daniel Dern <ddern@BBNCCH.ARPA>
Like any good compulsive sf lover, I'll take a shot at almost anything that can
be found in the science fiction/fantasy area of a bookstore -- and where a book
or author's reputation preceeds it, I'll give more than one try in many cases.
I have not read more than half of any book by Stephan R Donaldson. I've tried,
but:
o I could not relate to the main character. I didn't care about him.
He seemed to have the emotional subtlety and sense of a deoderant
commercial, to use the first shallow image to comes to mind. This is
not a requisite criterion by my standards, but, in the absense of empathy,
there should be some implicit point, conflict or interest to keep me
connected.
o Said protagonist (and perhaps others -- memory blissfully dims) had a
remarkable and off-putting propensity for obscure, dumb ephithets.
"Helleshin!" comes to mind. What ever happened to "By the crimson bands
of Cyttorak", etc? [ Yes, I know -- this is actually one of Dr. Strange's
shellscripts ]
o Opening any of the books at random, any paragraph I read was more likely
than not to be extremely badly written -- overwritten, wrong words used,
clumsy, trying to do all the work and not evoking anything.
I think I've given the double trilogy a fair shot, and it's not my pot of tea.
Given the quantity of books, and their popularity in terms of sales, I should
assume there is some merit and value. And then I think of the Gor books, and
realize that popularity is no absolute guarantee.
I can believe there is something of interest and value inside these books. I
just couldn't get through the surface for it.
Daniel Dern
ddern@bbn.arpachrisa@azure.UUCP (Chris Andersen) (06/23/85)
In article <2343@topaz.ARPA> ddern@bbncch writes: > >Like any good compulsive sf lover, I'll take a shot at almost anything that can >be found in the science fiction/fantasy area of a bookstore -- and where a book >or author's reputation preceeds it, I'll give more than one try in many cases. > >I have not read more than half of any book by Stephan R Donaldson. I've tried, >but: > > o I could not relate to the main character. I didn't care about him. > He seemed to have the emotional subtlety and sense of a deoderant > commercial, to use the first shallow image to comes to mind. This is > not a requisite criterion by my standards, but, in the absense of empathy, > there should be some implicit point, conflict or interest to keep me > connected. Does one have to be a leper in order to have empathy with the guy? I think not. To me, the character shows just how much society can ostrasize(sp?) people for what is essentially a misconception. Furthermore, I think the idea of the main character being a leper was the main reason why I got into this story so quickly. If someone had asked me what leprosy was, I wouldn't have been able to give even a half decent answer (I wouldn't be surprised if most people, beyond a few doctors, would fail at this too). Leprosy becomes more then just a disease in this story, it's a way of life for Covenant. > > o Said protagonist (and perhaps others -- memory blissfully dims) had a > remarkable and off-putting propensity for obscure, dumb ephithets. > "Helleshin!" comes to mind. What ever happened to "By the crimson bands > of Cyttorak", etc? [ Yes, I know -- this is actually one of Dr. Strange's > shellscripts ] I don't remember "Helleshin!" at all (could you perhaps e-mail me the page on which it occurs?), He did however say "Hellfire!" quite often. > > o Opening any of the books at random, any paragraph I read was more likely > than not to be extremely badly written -- overwritten, wrong words used, > clumsy, trying to do all the work and not evoking anything. I'll concede this point. Donaldson would be a nightmare to most english teachers (my gripe: he over uses similes (like, as, as, like, etc.)). However, consider first that this is the first book he has written and I wouldn't be surprised if many of todays best sf writers also had bad writing styles when they first started. Furthermore, even with the bad writing, he still moved me tremendously with his story. Of course, this may have to do with not really caring as much about the mechanics of writing as about what is being written. I think others sometimes allow their demand for good mechanics to destroy an otherwise pleasurable reading experience. > >I think I've given the double trilogy a fair shot, and it's not my pot of tea. I'm not going to force you to change your mind. But that doesn't mean I won't try to shoot down your criticism. >Given the quantity of books, and their popularity in terms of sales, I should >assume there is some merit and value. Never assume. > And then I think of the Gor books, and >realize that popularity is no absolute guarantee. You like Gor too? :-) > >I can believe there is something of interest and value inside these books. I >just couldn't get through the surface for it. How one comes out after reading Covenant may very well depend on how one is feeling when first picks up the book. > >Daniel Dern Chris Andersen tektronix!azure!chrisa
res@ihuxn.UUCP (Rich Strebendt @ AT&T Information Systems - Indian Hill West; formerly) (06/24/85)
In response to (much edited original posting): > Like any good compulsive sf lover, I'll take a shot at almost anything that > can be found in the science fiction/fantasy area of a bookstore AHHHH -- a kindred soul!!! > I have not read more than half of any book by Stephan R Donaldson. I've tried, > but: > > o I could not relate to the main character. > o Said protagonist (and perhaps others -- memory blissfully dims) had a > remarkable and off-putting propensity for obscure, dumb ephithets. > o Opening any of the books at random, any paragraph I read was more likely > than not to be extremely badly written -- overwritten, wrong words used, > clumsy, trying to do all the work and not evoking anything. > > I can believe there is something of interest and value inside these books. I > just couldn't get through the surface for it. It looks like I did a little better(?) than you -- I read two whole volumes and part of the third before I gave up in disgust. I found the protagonist to be a first order jackass, the dialog to be unconvincing, and the prose to be pretentious. I pressed on with the stories, however, in the hope that there would be some redeeming value -- about a third of the way into the third volume it became clear that NOTHING could save the story. I guess I do not find anti-heros entertaining or depressing story lines amusing. Rich Strebendt ...!ihnp4!iwsl6!res
crm@duke.UUCP (Charlie Martin) (06/25/85)
In article <2343@topaz.ARPA> ddern@bbncch writes: > > o Said protagonist (and perhaps others -- memory blissfully dims) had a > remarkable and off-putting propensity for obscure, dumb ephithets. > "Helleshin!" comes to mind. What ever happened to "By the crimson bands > of Cyttorak", etc? [ Yes, I know -- this is actually one of Dr. Strange's > shellscripts ] > I thought the "helleshin" thing was pretty interesting -- wasn't that used in the Cities In Flight books? As a curse of vegan origin? Does it have any meaning in English, so was it just a word the Donaldson picked up? -- Charlie Martin (...mcnc!duke!crm)
klr@hadron.UUCP (Kurt L. Reisler) (06/26/85)
One of the problems with the _Chronicles_of_Thomas_Covenant_ is that Donaldson takes forever to develop his characters. By the end of the second of the 6 books, we are beginning to see what makes Thomas Covenant tick. Another problems is the foundation of the books itself. It is difficult to get the reader to "beleive" what he/she is reading, when the main character in the book refuses to beleive that it is real. The time dialation are a bit to handle, the mechanic of bringing back dead characters, all are contreivances (sp?) that take a while to swallow. I waded through all 6 books. I actually looked forward to each one coming out. I also see that there could be more.