sean@ukma.UUCP (Sean Casey) (08/02/86)
I'm going to buy a computer near the end of this year, and I'd like
your recommendations on the Atari ST's. I've been programming for
about 8 years and I've been doing systems programming in C for about
two years. I want to have:
1. A machine with a good C compiler, possibly running a Unix vari-
ant, for doing development work.
2. A terminal emulator, so I can do my mainframe work from home.
3. A game machine - It's been too long since I've had access to good
computer games!
Anyone who answers any of my questions would have my sincere apprecia-
tion. There are a LOT of questions here, but if you could answer any
that would be great.
- Sean
GENERAL OPINION
What do you think of it? Is it a toy or a serious machine? How
does the keyboard feel? Have yours had any problems?
PRICING
What's the lowest price you've seen for a 1040 ST?
MONITORS
I see a lot of ads for "520 ST with color monitor". Does Atari
make a "standard" monitor or are dealers pushing the cheapest
color monitor they can find? I'm going to be buying a good Sony
27 inch television about the same time I get this computer. Can
such a beast work with this computer? If I bought a nice Prince-
ton Graphics, Amdek, Taxan, etc., would it look much better than
the one(s) the dealers refer to?
C COMPILERS
What do you think of the C Compilers available? I don't know of
any dealers nearby, so I haven't really gotten a personal look at
any compilers. I have heard a bit of raving about Megamax C,
mostly good. If you've used Megamax, Lattice, or Aztec C, I'd
like to hear what your opinion is of the compiler. I will be
doing some serious, hard core development work (in other words, I
will be paid for it) that may be transferred to large Unix sys-
tems. I'd like a compiler that can handle the same code that the
portable C compiler can handle, and I'd like one that doesn't
make me wait all year (this is supposed to be an 8 Mhz 68000, no
excuses for slow compilers). I'm willing to pay good money if
it's a good compiler.
UNIX IMPLEMENTATIONS
I've heard that OS9 has been ported to the thing, but the price
for the OS and C compiler is about the same as a complete Atari
system! Who's going to buy it? Not me! Perhaps you know if the
price of the thing is coming down or maybe you've heard of a dif-
ferent Unix port. Please let me know. BTW, I saw an ad in
August Byte for a complete SysV port for the IBM AT for about
$450. Not a bad price for a real SysV port with pcc, ftn77, text
formatters, and manuals.
CD ROMS
Anyone making an interface for these buggers? The idea of having
an online encyclopedia or dictionary or other various databases
is very attractive to me. For the things to work, you've got to
have DMA, ethernet, or some other very high speed data transfer.
This means you've got to have hardware support. Is it there? Is
anyone working on this?
* SOAPBOX TIME *
I saw an ad in Byte for a CD of public domain software that con-
tained the equivalent of 400 or so floppy disks. Sounded great
till I saw the price: $195. HOLY RIPOFFS, BATMAN! I'm sure that
the media costs less than twenty dollars. They invent a fantas-
tic new media for mass storage, one that brings possible vast
software libraries to the average person at low cost, and instead
of using it to place this software in the hands of users, these
people jack up the price way out of proportion to the media cost.
This stuff is public domain! Somebody ought to sue their asses
for making a profit from it.
* DOWN FROM SOAPBOX *
STAR RAIDERS
It's been at least three years since I last played Star Raiders,
probably more. If it were released today it would still be one
of the greatest games around. Is anyone planning on porting the
thing to the ST series? It would be stupendously awesome with
higher-res graphics and sound. I was even thinking of writing a
simple version for the Adage 3000!
Thanks for answering any or all of this. I've been involved with com-
puters for a long time. Some of them cost more than I'll ever make in
my lifetime. And yet I've never owned one. This is an important
decision for me and I appreciate any and all help.
Sean
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sean Casey UUCP: cbosgd!ukma!sean CSNET: sean@uky.csnet
University of Kentucky ARPA: ukma!sean@anl-mcs.arpa
Lexington, Kentucky BITNET: sean@ukma.bitnetcbbrowne@watnot.UUCP (Christopher Browne) (08/03/86)
In article <4140@ukma.UUCP> sean@ukma.UUCP (Sean Casey) writes: > >I'm going to buy a computer near the end of this year, and I'd like >your recommendations on the Atari ST's. I've been programming for >about 8 years and I've been doing systems programming in C for about >two years. I want to have: > >1. A machine with a good C compiler, possibly running a Unix vari- > ant, for doing development work. > >2. A terminal emulator, so I can do my mainframe work from home. > >3. A game machine - It's been too long since I've had access to good > computer games! > >Anyone who answers any of my questions would have my sincere apprecia- >tion. There are a LOT of questions here, but if you could answer any >that would be great. > >- Sean > > >GENERAL OPINION > What do you think of it? Is it a toy or a serious machine? How > does the keyboard feel? Have yours had any problems? > > >PRICING I can speak only of Canadian prices, and I haven't seen 1040 prices recently. > > >MONITORS > I see a lot of ads for "520 ST with color monitor". Does Atari > make a "standard" monitor or are dealers pushing the cheapest > color monitor they can find? I'm going to be buying a good Sony > 27 inch television about the same time I get this computer. Can > such a beast work with this computer? If I bought a nice Prince- > ton Graphics, Amdek, Taxan, etc., would it look much better than > the one(s) the dealers refer to? > The system includes an Atari-made colour monitor which is of very reasonable quality. It is a little difficult to hook up other monitors, and the Atari one is plenty good. It was designed to go with the computer, and so the two go together very well. > >C COMPILERS > Sorry, I can't comment on this since I don't have one. > >UNIX IMPLEMENTATIONS > I've heard that OS9 has been ported to the thing, but the price > for the OS and C compiler is about the same as a complete Atari > system! Who's going to buy it? Not me! Perhaps you know if the > price of the thing is coming down or maybe you've heard of a dif- > ferent Unix port. Please let me know. BTW, I saw an ad in > August Byte for a complete SysV port for the IBM AT for about > $450. Not a bad price for a real SysV port with pcc, ftn77, text > formatters, and manuals. > All I can say is that I hope that OS9 comes down in price. Unix has not (yet?) been ported. > >CD ROMS > Anyone making an interface for these buggers? The idea of having > an online encyclopedia or dictionary or other various databases > is very attractive to me. For the things to work, you've got to > have DMA, ethernet, or some other very high speed data transfer. > This means you've got to have hardware support. Is it there? Is > anyone working on this? > The hardware support does exist. Atari has demonstrated the Activenture system at least twice. They have stated that they plan to sell CDROMs... but... not yet. They are looking for the cost (of the players) to come down so that they can market them in quantity. So, whenever players get nice and cheap, you can expect to see Atari selling them. (This is not unreasonable. Atari needs to sell an awful lot of them to be able to make a profit. If they have to sell them at $1200, they won't sell very many.). > > * SOAPBOX TIME * > > I saw an ad in Byte for a CD of public domain software that con- > tained the equivalent of 400 or so floppy disks. Sounded great > till I saw the price: $195. HOLY RIPOFFS, BATMAN! I'm sure that > the media costs less than twenty dollars. They invent a fantas- > tic new media for mass storage, one that brings possible vast > software libraries to the average person at low cost, and instead > of using it to place this software in the hands of users, these > people jack up the price way out of proportion to the media cost. > This stuff is public domain! Somebody ought to sue their asses > for making a profit from it. > > * DOWN FROM SOAPBOX * It is not necessarily unethical. There was a major discussion on net.micro on the sales of PD software, and the general conclusion was that a company which chooses to make software available should not be denied a profit. NO ONE is going to advertise in BYTE (at at least hundreds of dollars a crack, if not thousands) and compile, copy (onto whatever medium), and mail out software for free. In this case, MEDIA cost may be insignifigant when compared to such things as mastering (making the original CD), the time spent merely putting together the library (how long does it take to copy 400 disks, weeding out anything useless, adding documentation where possible, organizing directories, etc.). Remember here that $195 is pretty cheap. Compare that to the cost of 400 floppy disks. We're talking 50 cents per disk. Next, comes the part about suing. They cannot be sued for selling public domain software. They can be sued for selling copyrighted software without permission (big difference). GNU (the 'public domain' UNIX clone) cannot legally be sold for a profit, because it is copyrighted. It can be distributed free of charge (or, I think, with a minimal copying fee - you'll have to pay for the tape/disks you get it on) but not sold. Uncopyrighted works, such as many public domain programs can be sold for a profit by anyone who finds someone willing to buy them. It is unlikely that they will be sued for it, given that they have been reasonably careful as to how they have done the job. Is it unethical? To some (yourself included) it is. To others it is not. Please remember that anyone who does not want to pay $195 for the CD of public domain software is not forced to do so. I'm not buying it - but mostly because I have no use for it. If I had a CDROM player, and the right computer, I might find it very worthwhile to purchase the CD at $195. > >STAR RAIDERS > It's been at least three years since I last played Star Raiders, > probably more. If it were released today it would still be one > of the greatest games around. Is anyone planning on porting the > thing to the ST series? It would be stupendously awesome with > higher-res graphics and sound. I was even thinking of writing a > simple version for the Adage 3000! > Atari is working on a version for the ST, and I have heard of some demos floating about. I hear that it is in fact very stupendously awesome. It certainly will be one of the greatest games around as soon as it comes out. When that is, I am not sure (When is it NEIL?!?!?). > >Thanks for answering any or all of this. I've been involved with com- >puters for a long time. Some of them cost more than I'll ever make in >my lifetime. And yet I've never owned one. This is an important >decision for me and I appreciate any and all help. > >Sean > >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Sean Casey UUCP: cbosgd!ukma!sean CSNET: sean@uky.csnet >University of Kentucky ARPA: ukma!sean@anl-mcs.arpa >Lexington, Kentucky BITNET: sean@ukma.bitnet Christopher Browne University of Waterloo
robt@molihp.UUCP (Robert L Thurlow) (08/05/86)
>>STAR RAIDERS >> It's been at least three years since I last played Star Raiders, >> probably more. If it were released today it would still be one >> of the greatest games around. Is anyone planning on porting the >> thing to the ST series? It would be stupendously awesome with >> higher-res graphics and sound. I was even thinking of writing a >> simple version for the Adage 3000! >> >Atari is working on a version for the ST, and I have heard of some demos >floating about. I hear that it is in fact very stupendously awesome. It >certainly will be one of the greatest games around as soon as it comes out. >When that is, I am not sure (When is it NEIL?!?!?). I have seen the demo of Star Raiders, and it is *breathtaking*. I didn't quite realize how damned good the color screen on this beast is until I saw that. The colors are fabulous, the motion is smooth and steady, and the whole effect is very impressive. It wouldn't do anything, but I watched it for minutes. Now if only I could find a decently priced TV which would accept the Atari RGB color output! # UUCP : ...!ubc_vision!molihp!robt Robert Thurlow # # My thoughts are my own, and are void where prohibited by law. # # "There was something fishy about the butler. I think he was a # # Pisces, probably working for scale." -Nick Danger, 3rd Eye #
phr@mit-prep.ARPA (Paul Rubin) (08/07/86)
From: cbbrowne@watnot.UUCP (Christopher Browne) Newsgroups: net.micro.atari16 Date: 3 Aug 86 00:12:05 GMT Reply-To: cbbrowne@watnot.UUCP (Christopher Browne) Keywords: cd-roms unix monitors star-raiders foreplay sex [Stuff about a some vendor selling a CD-rom full of public domain software for $195...] Next, comes the part about suing. They cannot be sued for selling public domain software. They can be sued for selling copyrighted software without permission (big difference). GNU (the 'public domain' UNIX clone) cannot legally be sold for a profit, because it is copyrighted. It can be distributed free of charge (or, I think, with a minimal copying fee - you'll have to pay for the tape/disks you get it on) but not sold. ... There is no problem with selling copies of GNU, or support services for it, at a profit. What GNU's copyright terms do not allow is trying to restrict further redistribution of any version of GNU that you sell. The vendor has to pass on the same rights to the recipient that s/he him/herself had (including the right to give away copies)--- that is, proprietary versions are not allowed. The only other restriction is that if any GNU-derived software is distributed in binary form (such as in ROMs), it must also be made available in machine readable source code form at nominal cost to anyone asking for it. (Also, the customer must be informed that the Free Software Foundation does not provide any warranty for the software.) See the GNU Emacs General Public License for details of this. Other parts of the GNU system will be released under very similar terms. I will mail copies of the General Public License on request. Paul Rubin Free Software Foundation P.S. As long as the contents of the CD-rom that that place is selling is still PD, I don't find it too objectionable. As long as the people selling the CD-rom do not try to prohibit others from copying it, possibly also in CD-rom form, the price should fall pretty fast.