gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) (08/04/86)
In article <5311@sun.uucp>, cmcmanis@sun.uucp (Chuck McManis) writes: > ...the monitor alone to display 1200 X 800 monochrome graphics is > on the order of $1000 wholesale. Add to that the $200 price of *each* > 68020 chip, multihundred dollar price of 68881 chips, 4 Meg of ram > (which at $3 per 256K chip is still $384)... In article <398@atari.UUcp>, dyer@atari.UUcp (Landon Dyer) writes: > I respectfully suggest that the prices quoted above are > representative of the company buying the parts, and not what > the parts really cost. When I was at Sun, they had pretty aggressive purchasing people. More to the point is that prices are a function of volume. If Sun hadn't bought 19-inch non interlaced 1152x900 monitors by the hundreds in 1984, and gotten the bugs out of them, and ramped up from there, you wouldn't see these monitors at $1000 now. If next year Atari can bring out a product that uses them, and sell 20,000 a month, certainly the price will come down. Similarly if Sun (and others) hadn't been shipping 68020's for a year, Motorola wouldn't be ramped up to where they could handle orders for Atari's volume. When these (currently special) products become standard items, Sun's as well as Atari's customers will benefit from the coresponding price reductions. Low price alone won't bring Atari customers, though. Remember the first mass market 68000 system (TRS-80 Model 16)? Those clowns sure didn't know how to make a 68000 hum. From what I hear, Atari is doing a similar trick with their 68020 project -- hiding it behind a slow 68000 "I/O processor" where it can't get to the outside world quickly. (I/O speeds in Suns went way up with the 68020, especially screen updates, disk access, and streaming tape drives.) The Atari ST's I've seen have been mostly I/O bound and cripped with bad software; a "back-end" 68020 won't fix that. -- John Gilmore {sun,ptsfa,lll-crg,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu jgilmore@lll-crg.arpa May the Source be with you!
wmb@sun.uucp (Mitch Bradley) (08/06/86)
Sun does not pay $1000 for thousand-line 19" monochrome monitors. When we first started shipping them several years ago, the price was in that ballpark (there was only one supplier), but not now. It also strongly depends on that size of the tube. 19" monitors cost significantly more than 15" monitors with the same number of pixels. Mitch
grr@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (George Robbins) (08/08/86)
In article <5861@sun.uucp> wmb@sun.uucp (Mitch Bradley) writes: >Sun does not pay $1000 for thousand-line 19" monochrome monitors. >When we first started shipping them several years ago, the price >was in that ballpark (there was only one supplier), but not now. > >Mitch As a further comment, there is quite a difference between a vendor like SUN buying components, mostly in the US for assembly here in maybe ~1000 unit/month quantitys, and someone like Atari or CBM buying parts in the Far East for sub- assembly there in ~25000 unit/month quantitys. I wouldn't want to quibble about the numbers here, the point I want to make is that component pricing is based on quantity, location, quality, time, luck and negotiating prowess. One some parts SUN and Atari might pay nearly the same price, or others there might be a factor of 2-4 difference in cost. -- George Robbins - now working with, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|caip}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
jdg@elmgate.UUCP (Jeff Gortatowsky) (08/08/86)
In article <946@hoptoad.uucp>, gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: >The Atari ST's I've seen have > been mostly I/O bound and cripped with bad software; a "back-end" > 68020 won't fix that. > -- > John Gilmore {sun,ptsfa,lll-crg,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu jgilmore@lll-crg.arpa > May the Source be with you! Finally, someone else besides me sees at least a few small warts on the ST. I still like the machine. But the END to all computers it ain't. Not even for $1000. -- Jeff Gortatowsky {allegra,seismo}!rochester!kodak!elmgate!jdg Eastman Kodak Company <Kodak won't be responsible for the above comments, only those below>