Goodell.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA@sri-unix.UUCP (07/27/83)
next comes a lot of mundane chapters about a bunch of people running around nude in an uninhabited paradise (these chapters seem strongly influenced by Earth Abides). So far it's not too bad, but after about a year in paradise, these people are taken into custody by a black race that has taken over the world. These people use whites for slaves, castrate everyone over the age of 18, and to top it all off, they're cannibals. At the end of the book, Heinlein decides to add yet another element of hokey science fiction, by having the hero and his adultress return home via a time machine. Pure art, eh? After reading this book, I figured I must have stumbled onto one of his poorer works, so I read what I had understood to be one of the few real SF classics - Stranger in a Strange Land. When I was halfway through the book, I forgave Heinlein for Farnham's Freehold. The story of a modern-day Martian- human come to earth was extremely fast-paced and very well thought out. Heinlein was very consistent and believable in his portrayal of the Martian's introduction to humanity. He very effectively, yet subtly, pointed out most of man's less attractive idiosynchrosies through the eyes of the naive Valentine Michael Smith. However, for me, the book ended as soon as Smith's accounts had been settled by his friend, Jubal. Everything had been cleared up - the loose ends had been tied. There was no room for any more suspense, mystery, or action. The Martian was free to fully adapt to human culture. It was like one of those books you never want to end; the only difference was that this one didn't. For some reason, Heinlein used the next 200 pages as a guide to his version of interstellar philosophy. Actually I couldn't figure out if Heinlein believed the same things that Smith did, or whether he was just writing for lack of anything better to do. Maybe I missed something, but wasn't it kind of silly for Heinlein to dedicate several portions of this book to glimpses into heaven, where we saw God (Foster) and his angels hard at work influencing the ways of man? This would have been fine if it had had undertones of irony or sarcasm, but it didn't. I guess what I can't figure out is whether Heinlein is supposed to be a serious writer or a writer of junk or a cynical, sarcastic writer using his books as propaganda for his own beliefs. I would appreciate it if somebody would tell me, because then I would know in what light to read his books. I have been very disappointed by Heinlein so far, because he always turns the tables one time too often. He starts off a book by getting his reader thoroughly involved, and then it's as if he laughs in the reader's face by making a serious story into something else. Confused and disappointed, Jeremy Goodell (Goodell.es)
Zdybel.PA@PARC-MAXC.ARPA@sri-unix.UUCP (07/29/83)
I think one of the reasons for Heinlein's broad popularity is his excellent juvenile SF books. Along with some of Andre Norton's stuff, they set the high water mark for that particular genre. Titles I remember fondly include Red Planet, Rolling Stones, Between Planets, Starman Jones, Citizen of the Galaxy and Star Beast. These were well crafted books, and popular with school librarians. In other words, a lot of current SF readers grew up with Heinlein. Whichever of his adult offerings you try, you won't escape at least of modicum of didacticism, and RAH's world view (in its various evolutions) doesn't have the broad appeal of, say, Richard Bach's. Some of the adult works that have least the character of philosophical tracts include Double Star, Puppet Masters, Podkayne of Mars (which in my view qualifies both as juvenile and adult fiction due to its unusual plot vehicle), and Moon is a Harsh Mistress. It's hard to understand Heinlein's popularity (or his place in the development of SF literature and the SF audience) without looking at his short stories, particularly those in the "Future History" Series. Anthologies of particular interest include Green Hills of Earth, The Man Who Sold the Moon, The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag (repackaged and republished under the title 6 X H, I believe) and The Menace From Earth. Cheers, Frank Zdybel P.S. Farnham's Freehold is perhaps my least favorite of Heinlein's books.
ddern@BBN-UNIX@sri-unix.UUCP (08/02/83)
From: Daniel Dern <ddern@BBN-UNIX>
A short, incomplete but hopefully accurate bit of context re Robert
Heinlein, why we have read him, and what to read:
To understand Heinlein better, it helps to consider the context of:
1. The state of science fiction when he began
2. The times in which he wrote
3. How old many of us sf-lovers were
Heinlein entered the scene in what became "the golden age of science fiction"
(often known as 15) -- a time when technical versamilatude, creative projection,
and good plot were higher on the general editorial priority list than
"good" writing, 3D characters, literary value ((I generalize, and this is
not the whole truth.)) .
Working to a large extent through the medium of "juveniles", Heinlein
brought a degree of believeability, integration of real-world activities
and more science/engineering disciplines and put them all together...
this isn't coming out clearly. I think the answer is: look to Heinlein's
"juvenile" works -- the ones which ran in Boy's Life, etc.
RED PLANET
THE ROLLING STONES
TUNNEL IN THE SKY
CITIZEN OF THE GALAXY.
HAVE SPACE SUIT, WILL TRAVEL
BETWEEN PLANETS
FARMER IN THE SKY
and others (I'm sure corrections/emendations will follow)
These are basically good, readable, honest books, utilizing a convincing
mix of current-to-the-time scientific knowledge (astromony, physics,
anthropology, sociology, engineering...) with projecting a future,
and a few breakthroughs or mild impossibilities.
They are a lot of what I grew up with, and they're still pleasant.
Heinlein played a major role in the popular acceptance of sf in general
markets, the "slicks" (a certain class of magazines), and in developing
the concept of "hard" science fiction, written with slide rule in hand.
Enough already. As a reader, I haven't enjoyed all RAH's work to the same
extent, but let's not trash to excess. Okay?
Also recommended, by Heinlein:
WALDO, and MAGIC, INC (two novellas)
(Universe?) -- forget the exact title, the generation-ship
pair of novellas
EXPANDED UNIVERSE -- a lot of essays BY Heinlein, giving much more
direct insight. Also fun non-sf fiction shorts.
Daniel Dern,
BBN-UNIXMDC.JANICE%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC@sri-unix.UUCP (08/08/83)
I thought NUMBER OF THE BEAST was horrible. I struggled through the whole thing hoping the ending would at least clear the plot up, but it just left me more bewildered. Not only the plot, but the characters drove me crazy. Heinlein hasn't the vaguest idea how to write a believable female viewpoint character. (It can be done by a male author; for a fine example, see WORLDS by Joe Haldeman.) I actually liked TIME ENOUGH FOR LOVE a whole lot (yes, I'll admit it). I consider it one of the most fun books I've ever read. Heinlein was enjoying himself, and it came through. (He carried it too far in NotB, to the point where he enjoyed himself, but no one else did.) FRIDAY I considered okay, but in need of the services of a good editor, and certainly not up to Heinlein's Future History tales. The book of his I disliked most was STARSHIP TROOPERS. Not because of faults of plot, etc., but because of the continual lecturing. The worst part of it was I could pick up flaws in his arguments, but I couldn't answer them! I was gritting my teeth half the time, wanting to say, "But...but..." I'm not one of those who condemn Heinlein's writing because I don't agree with many of his opinions. When those opinions, however, are expressed so obtrusively (often by having a teacher as a character, to provide an excuse to lecture), they get in the way of the story. Janice Eisen -------
tech@auvax (08/23/83)
I find I like Heinlein's early stuff but somewhere around Podkayne of Mars he started to fall down. He went 180 degrees farther right while becoming more interested in sex and libertarianism. I found I no longer liked them. I tend to be a pervert but his sexual tastes were too much for me. I lean to the left - common in Europe, occasionally seen in Canada and unheard of in the USA - and he just went too far the other way for me. Stranger in a Strange Land had its moments however. Time Enough for Love was a total loss. Richard Loken
KATZ%USC-ISIF@sri-unix.UUCP (02/10/84)
From: Alan R. Katz <KATZ@USC-ISIF> Robert Heinlein is an excellent writer and all of his books (except the last two) are great. Anyone who says otherwise is clearly wrong, so there!! (This is fact, not opinion). Alan PS I hope my postion in this is not too ambiguous. -------
gumby@spock.UUCP (Kevin Kaplan '86 cc) (02/12/85)
For all of you devoted fans of Robert A Heinlein, I reccomend strongly his latest book: J.O.B. - A COMEDY OF JUSTICE. It is a parody of the story of Job in the bible. I think it is one of his best yet. Also, has anyone read Doug Adams latest? SO LONG AND THANKS FOR ALL THE FISH?
crm@duke.UUCP (Charlie Martin) (04/05/85)
Heinlein mentions "The Glaroon" in Job and another story (trivia question: what story?) Does anyone hav any idea what the devil a glaroon is? -- Charlie Martin (...mcnc!duke!crm)
@RUTGERS.ARPA:LAURENCE@SU-CSLI.ARPA (04/05/85)
From: Laurence R Brothers <LAURENCE@SU-CSLI.ARPA> How can you forget "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"? That has to be heinlein's best novel. I liked Job, Friday to a lesser extent, and 666 even less, and I am afraid I have found the Lazarus Long material only passable (those characters just get on my nerves after a while, say 2000 years, you know?). -Laurence -------
@RUTGERS.ARPA:Stabron%xls-plexus01.amc@amc-hq.arpa (04/20/85)
From: Stabron%xls-plexus01.amc@amc-hq.arpa mike, You are definitely not the only one who liked NotB. I too (and my daughter) could recognize most of the characters at the end. We loved!!! it. Especially me!!! I recognized almost all of the characters too, and the books on their lists were mostly on my favorite list too. Sir IsAAc Newton was a Venerian "dragon" appearing in _Between Planets_. The copy I have is by DelRey Books and was published in 1981. The first publication was in 1951. It is one of the "juvenile" books. (Of course, I still re-read it periodically). Sir Isaac speaks with the aid of a voder/vocoder since he cannot approximate English. He was one of the ones I was most tickled to see again in NotB since I don't think he ever appeared anywhere else. It is terrifficc to find another died-in-the-wool aficianado of RAH. Sue Tabron <stabron@amc-hq>
RAOUL@JPL-VLSI.ARPA (06/25/85)
From: Alvin Wong <RAOUL@JPL-VLSI.ARPA> Someone asked a while back what was the "Glaroon" in a couple of Robert Heinlein's stories. I did not see an answer to this since. I too am greatly puzzled by this reference and would appreciate answers/minor pointers. Has anybody seen the offbeat SF movie "A Brother From Another Planet"? It was released just last year. "Wasting time is an important part of life." Al ------
crm@duke.UUCP (Charlie Martin) (06/26/85)
In article <2363@topaz.ARPA> RAOUL@JPL-VLSI.ARPA writes: >From: Alvin Wong <RAOUL@JPL-VLSI.ARPA> > > >Someone asked a while back what was the "Glaroon" in a couple of >Robert Heinlein's stories. I did not see an answer to this since. >I too am greatly puzzled by this reference and would appreciate >answers/minor pointers. I was the one, and no-one has responded to me, yet. The two places in which the references appear are in _JOB_ and in a short-story called _They_. Also, someone wrote me a short while ago, asking about the story _Gulf_, which is connected to _Friday_. The story is in a collection called _Assignment in Eternity_ which is still in print (I think); I happened to remember it because they have been advertisements for Astounding in microfiche, and the issue which has _Gulf_ in it is one they are handing out as a freebie to show off the product. -- Charlie Martin (...mcnc!duke!crm)