demillo@uwmacc.UUCP (Rob DeMillo) (07/29/86)
A question for the house:
I am considering purchasing Micro C-Shell from David Beckemeyer Development
Tools in Oakland. Can anyone fill me in on this product a little bit more
than the article in START magazine did? (Has anyone out there even
used it?)
I am interested in knowing things like:
- does it allow access to .login or .cshrc files or
their equivalents?
- does it allow batch files?
- does it allow access to the desk accessories?
Any other information would be appreciated.
You may as well simply post the responses, since others might be interested
as well?
Thanks in advance....
--
--- Rob DeMillo
Madison Academic Computer Center
...seismo!uwvax!uwmacc!demillo
----------------------------------------
"I am not so sure
what you want me for! 'War Games'
Either your machine is a - Crosby, Stills and Nash
fool, or me..."mqh@batcomputer.TN.CORNELL.EDU (Mike Hojnowski) (07/30/86)
In article <93@uwmacc.UUCP> demillo@uwmacc.UUCP (Rob DeMillo) writes: > >I am interested in knowing things like: > - does it allow access to .login or .cshrc files or > their equivalents? > - does it allow batch files? > - does it allow access to the desk accessories? I have Micro C-Shell, and am quite pleased with it. The true UN*X hack will find the shell to be missing a lot of niceties, but for the casual user like myself, it's more than adequate. The Shell does have a login file called "login.sh", but nothing like a .cshrc that I've noticed. Once you're in the shell, you've left the desktop behind though, as far as I know, you can't access the desk accessories easily. The shell handles paths, aliases, history, shell variables, and lots of other goodies. Also included are some utilities like lpr, more, pr, etc... It's very easy to set up a nice working environment. Beckemeyer, bless his heart, doesn't use any of that obnoxious copy protection stuff, so you don't have worry about dropping pizza on the master disk (I almost did that to my PC/InterC*mm disk once. I wouldn't have bought it if I'd have realized what a pain that protection scheme would be). My one major gripe is that the shell won't run from the "auto" directory. My guess is that it's because the shell feels obligated to give you a nice full-screen logo, complete with button, before becoming sane again and giving a prompt. Personally, I would dispense with the desktop altogether if I could, but I'm forced into it just long enough to double-click on the shell. -- Mike Hojnowski (Hojo) {ihnp4,rochester}!cornell!batcomputer!mqh (607) 257-1389 (h) mqh@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (607) 255-4812 (w) mqh%batcomputer@crnlcs.bitnet "Well, he hasn't got religious mania, and he isn't running around in circles spouting Gilbert and Sullivan, so I suppose he's normal" - I, Robot
rroux@spp2.UUCP (Ray Roux) (07/30/86)
In article <93@uwmacc.UUCP> demillo@uwmacc.UUCP (Rob DeMillo) writes: >A question for the house: > >I am considering purchasing Micro C-Shell from David Beckemeyer Development >Tools in Oakland. Can anyone fill me in on this product a little bit more >than the article in START magazine did? (Has anyone out there even >used it?) > >I am interested in knowing things like: > - does it allow access to .login or .cshrc files or > their equivalents? > - does it allow batch files? > - does it allow access to the desk accessories? > I've been using Micro C-Shell extensively for the past 6 months and have been very happy with it. I've just sent away for the multi-tasking version, MT C-Shell, and am looking forward to using it. Now, for your questions: 1) Yes, it will read a file 'login' upon startup. This lets you setup your aliases, environment variables, etc... 2) Yes, the batch files are basically shell scripts, you have foreach, if, and a few others available to you. 3) I don't recall being able to run accessories, you can run gem programs though. I just sent in for an updated version, perhaps the current version allows this - but I'm not sure. It comes with a good set of tools, and there is a C-Tools package available with a bunch more. I'll post a review of MT C-Shell as soon as I get it. Disclaimer: I have no connection with Bekemeyer Development Tools, I'm only a happy customer. -- Ray Roux {ucbvax|decvax}!trwrb!trwspp!spp3!rroux
chabris_c@h-sc4.harvard.edu (chris chabris) (07/31/86)
In article <780@batcomputer.TN.CORNELL.EDU> mqh@batcomputer.UUCP (Mike Hojnowski) writes: >In article <93@uwmacc.UUCP> demillo@uwmacc.UUCP (Rob DeMillo) writes: >> >>I am interested in knowing things like: >> - does it allow access to .login or .cshrc files or >> their equivalents? >> - does it allow batch files? >> - does it allow access to the desk accessories? > >I have Micro C-Shell, and am quite pleased with it. The true UN*X hack >will find the shell to be missing a lot of niceties, but for the casual >user like myself, it's more than adequate. The Shell does have a login >file called "login.sh", but nothing like a .cshrc that I've noticed. >Once you're in the shell, you've left the desktop behind though, as far >as I know, you can't access the desk accessories easily. Beckemeyer himself recently reported on CompuServe that he is working on support for desk accessories in a future version (the current is 2.62, I believe). By the way, the MT/C-Shell is completed and will be shipped within days, according to his office. Apparently they are finishing up the documentation. The multitasking capabilities will, among other things, allow the use of well-behaved TOS programs from a remote system that has vt52 emulation (no termcaps at first, he says -- sorry). Sounds intriguing. -- Christopher F. Chabris 15 Sterling Road Armonk, NY 10504 CompuServe: 73277,305 UUCP: ...!harvard!h-sc4!chabris ARPA: chabris%h-sc4@harvard.ARPA BITNET: chabris@HARVUNXU.BITNET AT&T: (914) 273-8828
paone@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Phil Paone) (07/31/86)
It sure will run from auto. You don't use the program in the main directory. There is a program whose name escapes me in the bin directory. I think it is named cshell.prg. I haven't had anytrouble autorunning it. Phil Paone
mugc@utecfa.UUCP (ModemUserGroupChairman) (08/01/86)
In response to the question about Micro C Shell:
All the information below comes from a phone-call I made
to Beckemeyer.
#1: Micro C-shell is a Un*x C-Shell clone. Just as you would
expect, it does not do any multi-tasking (in Un*x, the
OS does the multi-tasking).
#2: They have another offering called the MT C-shell (MT =
multi-tasking, most probably). This MT C-shell (bad choice
of name, I think) is a bit of a Un*x clone. The package
comes with an operating system which allows multi-tasking
and sort of clones Un*x like features (a little like
QNX maybe). It comes with (I think) 4 shells. The default
login shell is set up from /etc/passwd, but any shell
can be executed from within the startup shell. The system
allows job-control (fore-grounding and back-grounding)
of tasks, from certain shell(s) to .TOS and .TTP programs.
#3: I believe MTCS also allows a multi-user facility (I suppose
user #2 logs in via the serial port). Again, this user
gets a shell allocated to him from /etc/passwd. (I forgot
to mention, there is a logon procedure for every user).
There is also a superuser facility to go with these other
facilities :-)
#4: There are permission bits for files ala UNIX, so you can
set certain programs out of bounds etc.
#5: There is one shell which can only be run from the console
(guess why :-)) which allows you to run Gem programs as
child processes under it. This shell does not have any
job-control facility (I believe), so once you get into
a Gem program, you are bound to it until you quit (can't
stop the job). I suppose though, that you can still do
multitasking (print spooling in the background for instance
by doing:
% lpr myfile &
% gemshell (or whatever)
(execute some gem program here)
#6: MTCS supports I/O redirection, true pipes and so on. (stderr
and stdout are distinct I believe)
#7: It comes with a host of programs such as lpr and a list of
others.
#8: MTCS was in Beta test, and should be shipping about now
(again, this is what they told me 2-3 weeks ago).
#9: Oops, forgot, there is a .login ;-)
All of this is from memory (3 weeks old), so please
correct me if anything here is incorrect. I'm not associated
with Beckemeyer and cannot vouch for the accuracy of the
above information because I have not seen it yet. Sounds great
though, so I went and ordered one!
Regards,
anees
--
Anees Munshi
@ University of Toronto Engineering Comp. Facility :A
{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!utcsri!utecfa!mugc
{ihnp4|decvax|utzoo|utcsri}!utecfa!utecfb!munshicms@vlsvax1.UUCP (Chuck M. Sweeney) (08/04/86)
In article <93@uwmacc.UUCP> demillo@uwmacc.UUCP (Rob DeMillo) writes: >A question for the house: > >I am considering purchasing Micro C-Shell from David Beckemeyer Development >Tools in Oakland. Can anyone fill me in on this product a little bit more >than the article in START magazine did? (Has anyone out there even >used it?) > >I am interested in knowing things like: > - does it allow access to .login or .cshrc files or > their equivalents? > - does it allow batch files? > - does it allow access to the desk accessories? > >Any other information would be appreciated. > I have been using Micro C-Shell since last November. To answer the questions quickly; 1) It reads a login.sh file on start-up in which you can set environment parameters, call other .sh files or programs and so on. 2) It runs batch files (read shell scripts) just like executable programs as long as they are in the path. 3) It does not allow access to the desk accessories (which has become a pain since I installed the "MacroManager" accessory from Blue Moon Software -neat, but that's another topic). Micro C-Shell is a terifically handy product for me. Most commonly, I run it out of a ram disk (which avoids the only irritant to me, that it accessess the drive for program reads often if the programs/utilities don't live in a ram disk). You can configure an environment pretty much any way you want, with .tos or .ttp programs in a bin directory or other directory in the user path which is an enivronment variable. It works so much like csh on 4.2BSD that I have the same aliases and (most) environment variables the same as I do at work (VAX/4.2) and do not have to worry about remembering different key sequences or commands. If you couldn't guess, I like it a *lot*. Also, late word from the author is that he is releasing the C-Shell with a multi-tasking operating system and a bunch of new features. I expect to be getting this, so stay tuned to this channel for a review. Sweeney vlsvax1!cms 415 490-3555
jhs@MITRE-BEDFORD.ARPA (08/07/86)
How much does it cost to obtain Micro C-Shell for the ST (exclusive of the ST!)? -John Sangster jhs@ MITRE-bedford.arpa "She sells C-Shells at the C-Shore?"
axel@coma.UUCP (08/09/86)
>very happy with it. I've just sent away for the multi-tasking version, >MT C-Shell, and am looking forward to using it. Did I read MULTITASKING here ? How does this work on the ST ? Could you (anyone) post a review on the "multi-tasking version" of MicroC-Shell ? Axel Mahler, Tech.Univ. Berlin (unido!coma!axel)
pvf@bridge2.UUCP (Paul V. Fries) (08/20/86)
I have been using the Micro C-Shell (v2.61) for a few months now and for the most part agree with the previous comments about it. It is a good product and is worth the cost. The features closely mimic the features found on the "real" computers at work, so it is easy to get it to do what you are familiar with in more sophisticated environments. One aspect that I do not like very much is that it has does not very well handle the initiation of GEM programs. As long as you are executing TOS or TTP programs (i.e. ASCII terminal oriented), all is fine. In order to run GEM programs, you must issue the command in the form: gem <command-name> The shell seems not to want to look for .PRG files when it is looking for commands and will not, on its own, perform the setup required for the GEM program to operate. It would seem that the gem command was added as an afterthought for ST use. Making the user select explicitly which programs will be run with the mouse and stuff makes it easier for the shell. Not intuitively obvious is the fact that command-line arguments are NOT supported. Not a BIG deal, but it means that I do not immediately have the ability to call my Megamax editor with the names of files to be editted. Annoying, but fairly easy to work around. To solve the problem, I wrote myself a program called "gemrun.tos". It operates seemingly identically to the gem function of the shell, but additionally passes the arguments to the system when doing the EXEC. Of course, it must be read fron the disk, so it is a bit slower (on floppies) than the standard function that it replaces. Another anomaly I have found is in the handling of the "no match" situation on wildcard file specifications. Unlike the true csh which will eliminate the pttern word that has no match, Micro C Shell is more like the Bourne Shell in that it leaves the unsubstituted pattern word in the argument list.