ravi@mcnc.UUCP (Ravi Subrahmanyan) (09/10/86)
[Yum ...]
Hi People,
Question time again. I'd appreciate anything anyone
could tell me. Please reply directly to me or to the net, whichever
you prefer (I think these are questions of reasonably general interest).
1) Hard disks: I'm interested in getting a 20Mb hard disk. I've
heard that the Supra hard disk is superior to the Atari hard disk, but
I do not know any more. How do the two disks compare in terms of
1) Speed
2) Convenience, ie. size, installation.
3) Compatibility. Someone told me that the reason I should choose
the Atari disk is because it will remain 'compatible' over
future versions of ROMS, etc. Is the Supra any different? Others
have said that the Supra is nicer because it has a longer cable, is
smaller, faster etc. Comments?
4) Price. I've heard of a discount offer by Atari to students
that'll make their disk available for about $640. How does
the Supra disk compare price-wise?
2) Clock cards: I've recently heard of two alternatives to the
Logikhron clock cartridge: One is the piece from No Solder
Required (the Timesaver) mentioned by Neil Harris, which plugs
under the U2 ROM. Has anyone used it? I couldn't get hold of the
company, does anyone happen to have a phone number?
The other is the stuff mentioned in Jerry Pournelle's column
in last month's BYTE, from Mind Mine. Their card plugs somewhere into
the key board, and runs off a pair of Nicads, good for about 7-8 days
without powering up the ST. The batteries charge up when the machine
is powered up, etc. At $55 (including shipping), its doesn't seem
that great a deal; does anyone know if it works well, etc?
3) Neil Harris: I've tried contacting him a couple of times, but
I always get a message from 'lll-crg' saying that 'vecpyr' is an
unknown host, ie. the message gets as far as lll-crg, then it says
'vecpyr!atari!neil' is unknown. Please let me know if there
is an alternate path to 'atari'.
Well, that's it. Thanks in advance for your comments. If I
get enough letters on a subject, I'll summarise to the net.
-ravi
{decvax, ihnp4, ucbvax}!mcnc!raviFISCHER-MICHAEL@YALE.ARPA (09/15/86)
1) Hard disks: I'm interested in getting a 20Mb hard disk. I've
heard that the Supra hard disk is superior to the Atari hard disk, but
I do not know any more. How do the two disks compare in terms of
1) Speed
2) Convenience, ie. size, installation.
I have the Atari SH204 20 meg hard disk. The speed is wonderful (though
I don't know how it compares with the Supra). Overall, I have been
quite pleased with its operation except for the following:
(1) The cable is too short to permit the disk to be placed at the back
of the table and still have the front panel face forward. So I have the
disk sideways with its back end (where the connector is) close to the
1040. But of course, there isn't much to see on a hard disk anyway.
(2) Much more serious are limitations mentioned in the owners manual;
in particular, that you should not have more than 40 directories total
in all partitions and all devices attached to the ST. Apparently this
restriction is due to some sort of bug in TOS. I don't really understand
why or how the ST even knows how many folders I have several levels down
in the directory tree, and indeed, one can apparently exceed the 40 number
for some period of time without any trouble. But the bug, whatever it is,
is real, and the result is a trashed partition on the hard disk. I rebuilt
my disk 3 times over the weekend before finally taking that restriction
seriously. (I had been using it for a month without problems; the trouble
only started when I added some new software that caused several new folders
to be created.) I would really appreciate hearing from anyone who has
any better information about this bug and what to do to prevent it
and/or recover from it.
(3) The software that comes with the hard disk does not permit booting
from it. Instead, one puts the driver on a floppy in the AUTO folder
and then boots from the floppy. Desk accessories are loaded from the
hard disk, but any AUTO folder on the hard disk is ignored. Neil Harris
announced a few weeks ago that TOS will in fact boot from the hard disk
if the appropriate boot sector is written on it. He indicated at the
time that Atari had software to write the boot sector and was currently
using it in-house and that they would release it if no problems
developed. (Neil, are you still listening, and is it soon to become
available?)
--Mike Fischer
<fischer@yale.arpa>
-------neil@atari.UUcp (Neil Harris) (09/16/86)
In article <8609151828.AA03938@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, FISCHER-MICHAEL@YALE.ARPA writes: > (2) Much more serious are limitations mentioned in the owners manual; > in particular, that you should not have more than 40 directories total > in all partitions and all devices attached to the ST. Apparently this > restriction is due to some sort of bug in TOS. I don't really understand > why or how the ST even knows how many folders I have several levels down > in the directory tree, and indeed, one can apparently exceed the 40 number > for some period of time without any trouble. But the bug, whatever it is, > is real, and the result is a trashed partition on the hard disk. I rebuilt > my disk 3 times over the weekend before finally taking that restriction > seriously. (I had been using it for a month without problems; the trouble > only started when I added some new software that caused several new folders > to be created.) I would really appreciate hearing from anyone who has > any better information about this bug and what to do to prevent it > and/or recover from it. The 40 folder limit is inherent in GEMDOS. The problem will manifest itself when the system has actually looked at more than 40 folders in one session (session=between power on and power off). So you can be safe even if there are many folders, as long as you power off before traversing 40 directory folders. This is known as the "Russian roulette" technique and is NOT recommended. > (3) The software that comes with the hard disk does not permit booting > from it. Instead, one puts the driver on a floppy in the AUTO folder > and then boots from the floppy. Desk accessories are loaded from the > hard disk, but any AUTO folder on the hard disk is ignored. Neil Harris > announced a few weeks ago that TOS will in fact boot from the hard disk > if the appropriate boot sector is written on it. He indicated at the > time that Atari had software to write the boot sector and was currently > using it in-house and that they would release it if no problems > developed. The auto boot program is still in test until we feel confident that it won't lead to other problems. -- --->Neil @ Atari ...lll-crg!vecpyr!atari!neil or ...lll-lcc!vecpyr!atari!neil BIX: neilharris CIS: 70007,1135 Delphi: NEILHARRIS GENIE: nharris WELL: neil Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308 US Mail: Atari Corp. 1196 Borregas Ave. Sunnyvale, CA 94086 "I'm a 20th century man but I don't want to die here." -- Ray Davies
jsgray@watmath.UUCP (Jan Gray) (09/20/86)
In article <8609151828.AA03938@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, FISCHER-MICHAEL@YALE.ARPA writes: >> (2) Much more serious are limitations mentioned in the owners manual; >> in particular, that you should not have more than 40 directories total >> in all partitions and all devices attached to the ST. In article <425@atari.UUcp> neil@atari.UUcp (Neil Harris) writes: >The 40 folder limit is inherent in GEMDOS. This is totally unacceptable. In these enlightened times there are no reasons to have stupid arbitrary limits like 6 desk accessories or 40 folders. Are you saying there is no fix short of new ROMs? "Bogus as Hell!" Jan Gray jsgray@watmath University of Waterloo 519-885-5921
braner@batcomputer.TN.CORNELL.EDU (braner) (09/24/86)
> Are you saying there is no fix short of new ROMs?
- does that imply that new ROMs will never come? I sure hope they will!
The price of putting the OS in ROM is harder - but still inevitable -
updating. The benefits are quick booting and more free RAM.
Good deal, as long as the updates do come! WILL THEY?
- Moshe Braner
(Even Apple redid the Mac ROMs... :-)jhs@MITRE-BEDFORD.ARPA (09/25/86)
Re: O/S Updates It is not putting the O/S in ROM that frees up memory space. It is putting the O/S up at the top of the address space that frees up RAM space. Why not use one of the CMOS battery backed up memory chips that is pin for pin compatible with standard ROM (not sure if it's the RIGHT ROM tho) in an ST and load it with the ROM version of TOS? Or any other desired O/S? If you wanna be fancy it could go on a piggyback board, much like the RAMrod board for the 8-bit Atari 800XL, and let you switch the RAM section to (1) act like RAM just below the normal ROM (or wherever you feel like putting it) or (2) replace the standard O/S ROM. Then you could load it under the control of standard software and then with one magic write to a control address it would replace the standard ROM. With this arrangement it wouldn't even need battery backup unless you wanted to remove the standard ROM for some reason. -John Sangster jhs@mitre-bedford.arpa
dclemans@mntgfx.UUCP (Dave Clemans) (09/25/86)
The rumors about a new set of ROMS for the ST might come from the work being done on the blitter upgrade. As part of installing that upgrade, a completely new set of ROMS must be inserted to support the blitter. At the San Jose Atari show, where a couple of 1040's in the Atari booth were running with the blitter, Sam Tramiel announced that the blitter chip was done (though I'm not sure whether his announcement implied that the roms to support the blitter were also complete). To upgrade existing ST's, a version of the blitter is packaged as a 64-pin DIP. That package is piggy-backed on top of the 68000. dgc