milne@uci-icse (05/22/85)
From: Alastair Milne <milne@uci-icse> Would somebody please have pity and tell me what a space "opera" is supposed to be? The only space opera I've ever heard of is "Aniara", by Blomdahl, and that because it was on the same record with the "2001" soundtrack. I trust it is not Wagner's Valhalla elevated to literally heavenly heights, or Verdi or Donezetti re-staged with Saturn's rings as a backdrop. Acknowledging, then, that it probably has nothing to do with real opera, what is it? Thanks, Alastair Milne
hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) (05/23/85)
In article <2056@topaz.ARPA> milne@uci-icse writes: >From: Alastair Milne <milne@uci-icse> > Would somebody please have pity and tell me what a space "opera" is supposed > to be? The only space opera I've ever heard of is "Aniara", by Blomdahl, I believe the term as commonly used is related to the term "horse opera" that used to describe western TV shows and novels. The implication is that the only difference between the two genre is the level of technology while the plots and characters are otherwise interchangeable. A classic example would probably be the film "Battle Beyond the Stars" which was a remake of "The Magnificent Seven" which in turn was a remake of "The Seven Samurai". Others would be "Outland" which was a remake of "High Noon" and "Star Wars" which was at least inspired by "The Big Fortress". "Opera" in this context implies a scenario with much action and passion but little real substance, as with most classical operas. (Bet I catch some flames for that one (-:{ ). -- -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp TTI 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Santa Monica, CA 90405 (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
crm@duke.UUCP (Charlie Martin) (05/23/85)
In article <2056@topaz.ARPA> milne@uci-icse writes: >From: Alastair Milne <milne@uci-icse> > > > Would somebody please have pity and tell me what a space "opera" is supposed > to be? > Thanks, > Alastair Milne Jeez, I almost hate to do it, but -- space opera is named by association with "horse opera", i.e. 2-reel shoot'em-ups. If a movie or story can be translated from SF to Bonanza by word replacement of "phaser" with "Winchester" and "spaceship" with "noon stage" -- then it is space opera. The term has gottento be extended to include most all mindless public-appeal SF, especially in movies (not to mention the Star Wars flicks, which I persist in thinking are not mindless); even the recent book "The Helmsman", which reads to me like a translation of Alexander Kent imitating C.S. Forester. Ghods know why 2-reel oaters became known as horse opera. -- Charlie Martin (...mcnc!duke!crm)
leeper@mtgzz.UUCP (m.r.leeper) (05/24/85)
>Would somebody please have pity and tell me what a space >"opera" is supposed to be? Westerns used to be called "horse operas" for reasons I am not sure. It may be connected to the term "soap opera". When a science fiction story was clearly just a western (a horse opera), with a blaster instead of a six-gun, aliens instead of indians, and a rocket instead of a horse, it was called a "space opera," the space equivalent of a horse opera. I think it was F&SF -- in any case one of the science fiction magazines of the '50s -- that had as part of an ad on the back cover two stories, one a western one a space opera with the identical plot. >The only space opera I've ever heard of is "Aniara", by >Blomdahl, and that because it was on the same record with the >"2001" soundtrack. I remember that record and the opera. It was based on the epic poem by Martinson. Martinson won a Nobel Prize for literature and ANIARA was his most major work as I understand it. He won a Nobel Prize in part for writing science fiction. The plot concerns a generation ship space craft that became lost in space and is destined to wander eternally. The music fits the story. I have an Columbia Masterworks recording of the whole opera, but have never had the patience to sit down and listen to it. Avon under their series Flair published the book a few years back. More than you wanted to know? Mark Leeper ...ihnp4!mtgzz!leeper
wildbill@ucbvax.ARPA (William J. Laubenheimer) (05/25/85)
Alastair Milne wants a definition of the term "Space Opera". I can do no
better than refer him to the introduction by noted SF author and bibliographer
Brian W. Aldiss, in his collection of such stories entitled "Space Opera"
(Doubleday, 1974). Some excerpts which may help clear up the issue:
"...Space opera was heady, escapist stuff, charging on without overmuch
regard for logic or literacy, while often throwing off great images,
excitements, and aspirations. Nowadays -- rather like grand opera -- it is
considered to be in decline, and is in the hands of imitators, or else has
evolved into sword-and-sorcery."
[On a definition of "space opera":]
"...The term is both vague and inspired, and must have been coined with both
affection and some scorn, analogously with soap opera and horse opera. And,
analogously with opera itself, space opera has certain conventions which are
essential to it ... Ideally, the Earth must be in peril, there must be a
quest and a man to match the mighty hour. That man must confront aliens and
exotic creatures. Space must flow past the ports like wine from a pitcher.
Blood must run down the palace steps, and ships launch out into the louring
dark. There must be a woman fairer than the skies and a villain darker than
a Black Hole. And all must come right in the end."
There follow several excellent examples of the sub-genre. If you do not
find this material sufficiently exciting (or perhaps outrageous, depending
on your taste), another Aldiss anthology, \\Galactic Empires// (St. Martin's,
1976), will lead you even farther in that dimension.
Bill Laubenheimer
----------------------------------------UC-Berkeley Computer Science
...Killjoy went that-a-way---> ucbvax!wildbillshoward@udenva.UUCP (showard) (05/26/85)
> From: Alastair Milne <milne@uci-icse> > > Would somebody please have pity and tell me what a space "opera" is supposed > to be? > > Acknowledging that it probably has nothing to do with real opera, > what is it? > Probably one of a long series of responses. Space opera refers to the Western-in-Space genre typified by Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, Star Wars, et. al. The term is related to soap opera and horse opera (western). --Steve Howard, aka Mr. Blore the DJ who would not die! -- ...udenva!showard --"You Earthlings are SO stupid"--Plan 9 from Outer Space
rfg@hound.UUCP (R.GRANTGES) (05/29/85)
[] It seems to me that there are at least two schools of thought on the subject of "space opera." One school, the vocal majority, equates space opera with "horse opera" and goes on to describe a hackneyed, western shoot-em-up plot with lots of other negative, put-downish connotations. On the other hand, I have always thought of the space opera as characterizing that branch of SF where there is considerable action on a relatively large canvas. To me some of the most rewarding and enjoyable stories would bear the name space opera rather proudly. For example, Pattern for Conquest, by George O. Smith, is certainly a classic in the genre. Probably all of the stories of the immortal E.E.Smith, PhD. The Foundation Series by Asimov. Star Wars Trilogy Some that would not qualify as space operas in my book: 2001 - action small scale and localized except for one sequence. Most of the works of A.E. Van Voght. Borderline examples: Ringworld and Ringworld Engineers What do you think? -- "It's the thought, if any, that counts!" Dick Grantges hound!rfg
peter@yetti.UUCP (Runge) (05/30/85)
In article <5872@duke.UUCP> crm@duke.UUCP (Charlie Martin) writes: >Ghods know why 2-reel oaters became known as horse opera. It is puzzling. After all it was the cowboys that did the singing (who can forget Gene doing "Tumbleweed", or Roy singing "Happy Trails"), not the horses. -- Peter H. Roosen-Runge, Department of Computer Science, York University Toronto (Downsview), Ontario
mary@bunkerb.UUCP (Mary Shurtleff) (05/31/85)
> On the other hand, I have always thought of the space opera as characterizing > that branch of SF where there is considerable action on a relatively large > canvas. To me some of the most rewarding and enjoyable stories would bear > the name space opera rather proudly. For example, > Pattern for Conquest, by George O. Smith, is certainly a classic in the genre. > Probably all of the stories of the immortal E.E.Smith, PhD. > The Foundation Series by Asimov. > Star Wars Trilogy I haven't read Pattern for Conquest, but I'll agree with you very strongly on "Doc" Smith's work (the Lensman and Skylark series epitomize space opera to me). I have to disagree on The Foundation Series, however. While the environment is large, lots happens, and it takes place over a long period of time, it is not characterized by: A hero too good to be true (a la Kimball Kinnison) A hero's girlfried too good to be true (Clarissa MacDougall) Lots of space battles and blaster play (beams, rods, needles, and helices of force, plus trusty DeLameters) Supremely evil bad guys (what could be worse than a Plooran?) Space ships that get faster and more powerful with more outrageous weapons in each successive book/chapter. The Foundation Series is much more idea-oriented than space opera, and so does not qualify. M. Shurtleff
ramsay@kcl-cs.UUCP (ZNAC440) (06/04/85)
<Munchkin, Munchkin> Talking of space opera (a la E.E. Doc Smith), does anyone recall Perry Rhodan? This actually billed itself as space opera, started in Germany, and eventually started to take over the whole world. I have been collecting English editions for yonks now, and have recently found the first book (!!) in its posh, Foss covered edition. I am up to 32 (Challenge of the Unknown, see, I told you it was space opera) and am scanning bookshops for any more hypertransitions. The majority of it is gunk, but it's highly readable gunk. I've seen decent editionsup to about 100 and something. ********************* WHAT HAPPENED TO THE FILM? ****************************** There was supposed to be a film: 'SOS from Outer Space' - Where is it now? ************************ PLEASE MAIL ME *************************************** Robert Ramsay aka Lazarus Long (Champions) Beveric Orcsplatter (AD&D) <Augh!>
rfg@hound.UUCP (R.GRANTGES) (06/04/85)
[] If there is "space opera," then there ought logically to be the equivalents of "Space Verdi," Space Puccini," "Space Wagner," etc. My personal definition of space opera does not include the built-in put-downs being promulgated about the net - probably by people who would put down conventional opera, if they could. Therefore, my definition is quite able to include "The Foundation" series. You see, I <like> space opera. And I <like> the Foundation series. Perhaps Asimov is Wagner and the Foundation is the Ring. Lastly, people who have not read George O. Smith's space operas have a real treat in store for them. "Pattern for Conquest" is my favorite, but there are others. -- "It's the thought, if any, that counts!" Dick Grantges hound!rfg
joel@peora.UUCP (Joel Upchurch) (06/04/85)
> Supremely evil bad guys (what could be worse than a Plooran?)
You must have forgot the Overlords of Delgon :-)leeper@mtgzz.UUCP (m.r.leeper) (06/09/85)
>[As for Perry Rhodan] There was supposed to be a film: 'SOS >from Outer Space' - Where is it now? There is a Perry Rhodan film called MISSION STARDUST (Spain/Italy/W. German, 1968). It starred Lang Jeffries as Rhodan and had Essy Persson (I, A WOMAN) as the villian. My best wish for you is to be healthy, live long, and somehow never see the film. Second best is dying young and never seeing the film. Mark Leeper ...ihnp4!mtgzz!leeper
fritz@utastro.UUCP (06/11/85)
> re: .....tell me what a space "opera" is supposed to be? > > > "Soap opera" soon followed, when afternoon TV became dominated by melodramatic > serials accompanied by detergent ads. The word "opera" has probably been > permanently damaged by all this. Will "interactive fiction" computer games > become known as "bit operas"? Film at eleven. opera: "work" in Italian. From Latin word OPUS meaning "work or PAIN". OPERA is the plural of opus. Far from being damaged, I think the word opera is just beginning to restablish its dominance. Many of my 'bit operas' would have been aptly named as such. 8-) -- Fritz Benedict (512)471-4461x448 uucp: {...noao,decvax,ut-sally}!utastro!fritz arpa: fritz@ut-ngp snail: Astronomy, U of Texas, Austin, TX 78712
bobg@cstvax.UUCP (Bob Gray ERCC) (06/13/85)
The perry Rhodan series went up to edition 132 in the translation from german into english (or rather american). No more have been translated since that I know about. I read all of them when they were first published. (Just a temporary mental condition.) The interest was lost in the British edition much sooner than that. As I remember the film was originaly made in german and dubbed (very badly) into english. I have never seen it but I understand it has been shown on the other side of the water. Bob Gray ERCC
ramsay@kcl-cs.UUCP (ZNAC440) (06/13/85)
>My best wish for you is to be healthy, >live long, and somehow never see the film. Second best is dying young >and never seeing the film. I suspected it might be that way, but then I glory in awful films, having seen more than a few already. (Was MISSION STARDUST as bad as 'Night of the Lepus'? (killer rabbits). R.Ramsay <Augh!>
rjn@hpfcmp.UUCP (rjn) (06/20/85)
re: .....tell me what a space "opera" is supposed to be? From the department of wild guesses: We can probably thank Roy Rodgers, Gene Autrey and other singing cowboys for this term. I suspect that "horse opera" originated in the late 40s or early 50s, when musical westerns were in vogue. To people who prefer musical westerns to classical opera, there's probably little difference :-). "Soap opera" soon followed, when afternoon TV became dominated by melodramatic serials accompanied by detergent ads. The word "opera" has probably been permanently damaged by all this. Will "interactive fiction" computer games become known as "bit operas"? Film at eleven. Regards, Hewlett-Packard Bob Niland 3404 East Harmony Road hplabs!hpfcla!rjn Fort Collins CO 80525
chris@umcp-cs.UUCP (Chris Torek) (07/05/85)
>>> Supremely evil bad guys (what could be worse than a Plooran?) >> >> You must have forgot the Overlords of Delgon :-) > > You all must have forgotten the Eddorians :-) :-) > > Steve Kallis, Jr. Hey! You weren't supposed to tell them about those! :-) -- In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Univ of MD Comp Sci Dept (+1 301 454 4251) UUCP: seismo!umcp-cs!chris CSNet: chris@umcp-cs ARPA: chris@maryland