jagardner@watmath.UUCP (Jim Gardner) (07/02/85)
In article <2372@topaz.ARPA> SUTHERLAND@TL-20A.ARPA writes: >From: Dean Sutherland <Sutherland@TL-20A.ARPA> >Try Glen Cook's "Black Company" trilogy (The Black Company, Shadows Linger, and >The White Rose). The Black Company of the title is a mercenary company trying >to survive and fulfill their contracts (in that order). >The series is VERY bleak, but it is good reading. On the contrary, I got a big kick out of the Black Company and found it not a bit depressing. The members of the company were certainly capable of military atrocities, the most memorable for me being the point at which they forced a group of prisoners to dig trenches for fallen dead, then killed the prisoners and threw them in the graves too. At the same time, the company recognized such actions as evil and usually tried to find alternatives to bloodshed. Moreover, there is a significant emotional difference for me between mercenary ruthlessness and love of death, stupid self-hate, and banal violence. I understand ruthless self-preservation, especially since the people they were fighting were no more noble. On the other hand, the love of suffering displayed by Donaldson's Ravers, and the constant self-disgust of Covenant and Linden Avery are simply loathesome, without the excuse of self-preservation. I agree that the Black Company have no noble sentiments about war or heroism and that the books are much grittier than most fantasy, but I think the villainy is of an entirely different nature than the Covenant books. For me, the Black Company books were not downers at all (and the third book was rather charming). Jim Gardner, University of Waterloo
chrisa@azure.UUCP (Chris Andersen) (07/08/85)
In article <15531@watmath.UUCP> jagardner@watmath.UUCP (Jim Gardner) writes: > On the other hand, the love of suffering displayed >by Donaldson's Ravers, and the constant self-disgust of Covenant and >Linden Avery are simply loathesome, without the excuse of self-preservation. Here I go again.... Covenants behaviour *WAS* self-preservation. Come on, the guy was a leper. He had to face the fact that for the rest of his life he would never, *NEVER* be able to feel things. I don't know if you realize it, but the sense of touch is about THE most prevalent one in our life. All the others (except maybe hearing) are selective and are used only when needed. Touch on the other hand is a sense that is constantly working 24 hours a day. You never really notice it until you lose it. But once you do, you realize just how much it was used by you. Covenant cannot touch. He cannot feel. He is impotent. And to survive, he has to isolate himself from everyone and to do that, he presents a loathsome front to everyone he meets (even those he tries to help). When he enters the land, his senses are fully returned to him, and he goes nuts. The only way he can save his sanity is to refuse to believe that he has actually been cured. Don't tell me that Covenant doesn't act by an instinct for self-preservation. That's complete bull. Chris Andersen
JAFFE@RUTGERS.ARPA (07/08/85)
From: watmath!jagardner (Jim Gardner) In article <2372@topaz.ARPA> SUTHERLAND@TL-20A.ARPA writes: >From: Dean Sutherland <Sutherland@TL-20A.ARPA> >Try Glen Cook's "Black Company" trilogy (The Black Company, Shadows Linger, and >The White Rose). The Black Company of the title is a mercenary company trying >to survive and fulfill their contracts (in that order). >The series is VERY bleak, but it is good reading. On the contrary, I got a big kick out of the Black Company and found it not a bit depressing. The members of the company were certainly capable of military atrocities, the most memorable for me being the point at which they forced a group of prisoners to dig trenches for fallen dead, then killed the prisoners and threw them in the graves too. At the same time, the company recognized such actions as evil and usually tried to find alternatives to bloodshed. Moreover, there is a significant emotional difference for me between mercenary ruthlessness and love of death, stupid self-hate, and banal violence. I understand ruthless self-preservation, especially since the people they were fighting were no more noble. On the other hand, the love of suffering displayed by Donaldson's Ravers, and the constant self-disgust of Covenant and Linden Avery are simply loathesome, without the excuse of self-preservation. I agree that the Black Company have no noble sentiments about war or heroism and that the books are much grittier than most fantasy, but I think the villainy is of an entirely different nature than the Covenant books. For me, the Black Company books were not downers at all (and the third book was rather charming). Jim Gardner, University of Waterloo