wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (06/20/85)
There have been references to Theodore Sturgeon recently, and also a few citations of the famous "Sturgeon's Law". I would like to trace down the actual origin and exact text of this famous principle. This is commonly quoted as "90% of *everything* is crap." However, I have heard that percentage vary from "90%" to "95%" up to "99%". (As a great truth, I lean toward the "99" being the more correct figure. :-) (But here I am more interested in what Sturgeon really said.) Also, the last word has varied from "crap" to "sh*t" (please excuse the usage, but accuracy is more important here than nicety). What is the true wording of this famous phrase? Can anyone cite the actual text where this originated? Or was it of verbal origin, perhaps in a lecture or talk or in a conversation (maybe at a con somewhere?) and entered the SF folklore via reporting and repetition? Thanks for your help! Regards, Will Martin USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin or ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA
hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) (06/22/85)
In article <11311@brl-tgr.ARPA> wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) writes: >There have been references to Theodore Sturgeon recently, and also a few >citations of the famous "Sturgeon's Law". > >What is the true wording of this famous phrase? > >Can anyone cite the actual text where this originated? Or was it of >verbal origin, perhaps in a lecture or talk or in a conversation (maybe >at a con somewhere?) and entered the SF folklore via reporting and >repetition? The way I heard it went something like this: During a conversation at a party (con?) a rather obnoxious critic said to Ted "90% of Science Fiction is crap.". Ted's immediate reply was the now famous "Of course. 90% of _everything_ is crap.". Personally, I like Bradbury's defense better: "A horrible little boy came up to me and said 'You know your in your book _The Martian Chronicles?'. I said 'Yes?'. He said 'You know where you talk about Diemos rising in the east?'. I said 'Yes?' He said 'No.' -- So I hit him." -- -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp TTI Common Sense is what tells you that a ten 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. pound weight falls ten times as fast as a Santa Monica, CA 90405 one pound weight. (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Lee Gold) (06/22/85)
The way I heard it, Sturgeon's Law went, "90% of everything is crud." (Crap and shit can sometimes be useful, if only as manure. Crud is by definition useless.) If true, this reprents an intereting case of popular myth cacophemizing a saying. --Lee Gold
jsc@sun.uucp (James Carrington) (06/23/85)
In article <11311@brl-tgr.ARPA> wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) writes: >There have been references to Theodore Sturgeon recently, and also a few >citations of the famous "Sturgeon's Law". I would like to trace down the >actual origin and exact text of this famous principle. I hate to post something I can't substantiate right at the moment, but I believe he said it at a world science fiction convention, while on some panel or another of sf authors. I recall reading an anecdote about it in one of I. Asimov's HUGO winners anthologies. -- James Carrington SUN Microsystems Associate Engineer 2550 Garcia Ave. MS1-40 Workstation Division Mountain View CA 94043 Networking Department 415-960-7438
allison@mitre.ARPA (06/24/85)
From: Burgess Allison <allison@mitre.ARPA> >This is commonly quoted as "90% of *everything* is crap." However, I >have heard that percentage vary from "90%" to "95%" up to "99%". (As >a great truth, I lean toward the "99" being the more correct figure. >:-) (But here I am more interested in what Sturgeon really said.) Just to add to breadth of variation (sorry, I don't have an answer), Paul Dickson in his 1978 Dell Publishing book, The_Official_Rules, cites the law as "90 percent of everything is crud." He goes on to add: This law is widely quoted--from "The Washington Post" to "Harper's"--with the percentages varying from 90 to 99 percent and the last word variously "crud" or "crap." I know this doesn't help, but it's an interesting question. Burgess Allison <allison@mitre>
kallis@pen.DEC (06/27/85)
>There have been references to Theodore Sturgeon recently, and also a few >citations on the famous "Sturgeon's Law". I would like to trace down the >actual origin ..." I cannot say whether it was the *first* time Ted uttered it, but I first heard the Law enunciated by him when he was the guest at a meeting of a New York City fan group in 1956 (or 1957 -- I didn't mark down the date at the time). I was a college kid at the time, and in those days, we were all wrapped up in the idea of the Sanctity of *all* SF. I'll try to reconstruct this as close as I can. After a few opening remarks, Ted said, "People are always criticizing the quality of science fiction. Well, I have to say, honestly, that 90 percent of science fction is crap." He paused for a second, which allowed us all to register shock, then he went on: "But then, 90 percent of *all* literatue is crap. However, science fiction is the only form of literature that is judged by its crap." please recall that in the mid- to late 1950s, "crap" was a lot stronger word than it is nowadays. And if it wasn't the very first time he made that utterance publicly, it had to be one of the early versions. Over the years, it became broadened and refined. The shock value was there: having a leading science fiction writer apparently biting the hand that fed him (though saving it with a sort of judo-twist in the next sentence) was to us in those days like discovering that our parents were hokers, or worse. Sturgeon's Law has a great deal of validity, and there are theoreticians who have tried to extend it beyond its bounds. It was meant to apply to literary works, not to the cosmos -- although certainly elements of that are, as Winston Smith might have said, double-plus ungood. But even the Zoroastrians and Manachees gave the continuum a 50-50 split. Steve Kallis, Jr.
bsa@ncoast.UUCP (Brandon Allbery) (07/04/85)
Expires: I seem to remember the exact quote was (and I've seen it so cited a number of times): "90% of science fiction is crap. In fact, 90% of *everything* is crap." Submitted for your approval... --bsa -- Brandon Allbery, Unix Consultant -- 6504 Chestnut Road, Independence, OH 44131 decvax!cwruecmp!ncoast!bsa; ncoast!bsa@case.csnet; +1 216 524 1416; 74106,1032 ========================> Trekkies have Warped minds. <=======================
JAFFE@RUTGERS.ARPA (07/08/85)
From: ncoast!bsa (Brandon Allbery) Expires: I seem to remember the exact quote was (and I've seen it so cited a number of times): "90% of science fiction is crap. In fact, 90% of *everything* is crap." Submitted for your approval... --bsa -- Brandon Allbery, Unix Consultant -- 6504 Chestnut Road, Independence, OH 44131 decvax!cwruecmp!ncoast!bsa; ncoast!bsa@case.csnet; +1 216 524 1416; 74106,1032 ========================> Trekkies have Warped minds. <=======================