os9@cbosgd.att.com (02/15/87)
OS-9 Discussions Sunday, February 15th 1987 Volume 2 : Issue 13
Today's Topics:
What is OS9?
can't get through to Peggy Li
Re: OS-9
Reality
Old Digests
Kermit68k - Forwarded Messages from info-68k
OS-9 Need Info
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 87 01:07:24 est
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Subject: What is OS9?
From: !David
What is OS9? Is this a decendent of OS6? (OS6 was an experimental
operating system written in BCPL by Stoy, Strachey, and several other
British BCPL types). Just curious.
David
[ Moderator's Notes: No, OS-9 is an operating system derived from concepts
of UNIX with some internal concepts, such as modules, which make it very
flexible and powerful. It runs on 6809 and 680X0 systems. I will forward
digest2.1 to you which goes into details. Some notes later on in this digest
also give some good insights. - JDD]
Date: 11 Feb 1987 0835-CST (Wednesday)
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From: sun!mcrware!jejones (James Jones)
Subject: can't get through to Peggy Li
Hiya! I find that mail I try to send to Peggy Li bounces. If you could
forward the following to her, I'd appreciate it greatly. (I didn't send
it to cbosgd!os9, because of heavy overlap with my rant that came out in
the latest issue, but you're more than welcome to use all or none or
whatever your moderatorial (?) judgment considers appropriate.)
[I included everything, since overlap catches those who missed previously.-JDD]
James Jones
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From: seismo!sun!mcrware!jejones (James Jones)
Date: 10 Feb 1987 0916-CST (Tuesday)
To: cit-vax!ametek!csvax.caltech.edu!peggy@Sun.COM
Subject: Re: OS-9
Dear Ms. Li,
I'll try to answer your questions; I should mention that opinions and
snide remarks below are purely my own. Taking them in order:
1. OS-9 runs on lots of machines. Alas, more of the "mass-market"
computers that run OS-9 are not in the US. Here's a guaranteed
incomplete list, at least:
6809--Tandy Color Computer 1, 2, and 3
Tano (at least at one time; I think there's a Spanish
company that owns the Dragon and makes a better 6809
computer now) Dragon
various Gimix SS-50 and SS-50C bus computers
various SWTP and Smoke Signal Broadcasting computers
some Gespac G-64 computers
various Hazelwood Computers machines
Fujitsu's FM-7, FM-11, and FM-77 (not sold in the US)
some Motorola EXORcisor bus-based computers
a Swedish (or is it Norwegian?) computer called the Candela
lots of single-board computers by various manufacturers
a British plug-in board for the IBM PC
68K---various Gimix SS-50C bus and single-board computers
various Hazelwood Computers machines
Fujitsu's FM-16 (*not* the 8086-based one they sell in
the US), or FM-11 with a plug-in 68K board
some Gespac G-64 computers
various VME bus computers
various computers (Multibus-based, I think) made by
Microboards (a Japanese company)
the Atari ST (formerly sold by TLM; call Microware for
details)
some plug-in boards for the IBM PC
This is just a partial list--not only are there sure to be general-
purpose computers I've missed, but I've not listed things like the
Fairlight CMI (one valid answer to the question "What do Mike Oldfield,
Kate Bush, and Peter Gabriel all have in common?" is "OS-9"). You can
call Microware (515-224-1929, 9:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. Central Time) and
ask for a list of hardware and software vendors.
2. The major differences between OS-9 and Unix are (to my mind, at
least) as follows:
OS-9 is built around the notion of dynamically linked and
loadable modules, whereas the innards of Unix essentially come
all in one statically-linked lump, take it or leave it. (To see
some of the ideas that underlie this design, read the 3-part series
on the 6809 in BYTE, January-March 1979--the first and last time
BYTE featured the 6809 with any prominence whatsoever.) If you
have a dedicated application, you can develop it on your big OS-9
system (or for that matter, if you avoid system-dependent stuff,
develop it on a Unix system in C and cross compile, or use Pascal,
though I don't think there's a Pascal cross-compiler), burn it into ROM,
and stick it on a single-board computer that only has in it those
modules you need (no disk? leave out RBF and the disk device drivers).
Unix has a single tree in which all files, including devices, live.
Under OS-9, each device is a tree unto itself (sequential character
devices are degenerate trees with only one node). There's no "mount"
call in OS-9.
OS-9 doesn't swap. There are good and bad points to this, but I
think the good points outweigh the bad for those of us who don't
have a Fujitsu Eagle as our swap device on our home computer:-).
For the rest, I fear that this letter would be very long indeed were I
to try to discuss the modular structure of OS-9, and I'd probably mess
it up, especially in comparison with *The Complete RAINBOW Guide to
OS-9*, available at your local Radio Shack store (if you can get the
sales staff to stop trying to sell you an IBM PClone and tell you where
they keep the books :-). (Alas, there are some nits I'd pick with the
historical section of the book, and it just talks about the 6809, but
the major concepts are the same from the 6809 to the 680xx.) You should
also look into *68 Micro Journal*, which is sold at at least one B.
Dalton's that I know of, but which you might wind up having to send off
for (CPI, Computer Publishing Center, 5900 Cassandra Smith Road, PO Box
849, Hixson TN 37343, (615) 842-4600).
I hope this helps; let me know, or call the Microware Marketing Depart-
ment at 515-224-1929, if you have more questions.
James Jones
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 87 16:41:29 cst
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From: ihnp4!uiucdcs!uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu!klieb (Kurt T. Liebezeit)
Subject: Reality
I am happy to see that many people are looking for more information on
OS-9. This news-group provides a much-needed service by answering questions
about OS-9 and its availability. One of the most common questions seems to
be "What kind of machine do I need to be able to run OS-9?" The answer to
that question is deceptively simple: nearly any 6809 or 680XX can run OS-9.
Although that answer is true, it is also misleading.
The truth is, OS-9 is only available for those 6809 and 680XX machines that
it has been ported to. OS-9's modularity does make porting a reasonably
staightforward job, but one still requires another OS-9 machine to do the
development on! Furthermore, a Port-Pak for the 68000 costs $1500. This is
a catch-22 situation for the folks who have non-OS-9 hardware that they wish
to convert for OS-9 use. Judging by some of the letters, many of those who
are posing questions to this group are in this situation.
Perhaps some former CP/Mer's in the audience will recall how it was *possible*
(albeit difficult) to bring up CP/M on a machine with nothing but a monitor.
One had to hand-assemble a skeletal BIOS, and then enter it into the machine
one byte at a time by hand. It took time, but one could get it to boot.
OS-9's sophistication makes this nearly impossible to do on one's own. At the
very least, one must have access to an OS-9 system to perform development on.
This is where I believe the existing OS-9 community can help: we can help
others on an individual basis bring up OS-9 on a new machine. This is especial-
ly true for those of us who have 68000 systems that support enough memory to
make multi-user operation practical. For example, I am willing to help anyone
in my area (central Illinois) familiarize themselves with OS-9, and I think
that bringing up a port on a new machine would be a rewarding learning
experience. Perhaps we could compile a directory of OS-9 users who would be
willing to assist others in their geographical area. Maybe someday OS-9 will
have local user groups to perform this function, but for now . . .
This is not a perfect solution (to what I perceive as a problem). One sticky
point is whether a Port-Pak is required. I think that one should be able to
purchase a standard OS-9 package, but Microware doesn't sell individual
licenses outside of the Port-Pak. Perhaps one could buy a license intended
for use on a particular machine, say a VME system, and then hack it to make
it work on whatever you've got.
I would also like to see a compilation of all the machines that OS-9 is
presently licensed on. Perhaps the folks at Microware could post such a list?
This might prevent someone from re-inventing another wheel.
It would also be interesting to hear from anyone who has done a port to
new hardware. What were some of the pitfalls?
At some time in the future I hope to have an OS-9 BBS; such a system would
allow potential new users some opportunity to sample OS-9 without investing
a lot of money. Unfortunately, my current Uniquad computer does not support
the RS-232 modem control lines, (i.e. data carrier detect), and the BBS will
have to wait till I can wire up some hardware. Are there any existing BBS's
running under OS-9/6809 or OS-9/68k?
Kurt Liebezeit
...!ihnp4!uiucdcs!uicsl!klieb
(217) 359-9859 (eves, voice)
[Moderator's Notes: I agree with some of these sentiments. Portpaks are
costly in one sense, but not many people need to get them to have ports
done to a number of machines. If you need a port done to a particular
machine, Microware can steer you in the direction of people who can do
it.-JDD]
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 87 16:46:08 cst
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From: ihnp4!uiucdcs!uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu!klieb (Kurt T. Liebezeit)
Subject: Old Digests
I have been reading the mod.os.os9 newsgroup religiously, but somehow I
seemed to have missed issues numbered 9 and 11. Is there anyway to obtain
a copy of these? Thanks in advance.
Kurt Liebezeit
...!ihnp4!uiucdcs!uicsl!klieb
[Moderator's Notes: I have kept an archive of all back issues. Your copies
are on their way. The note at the end of the digest has been modified to
let folks know that digests are available. - JDD]
Date: 12 Feb 1987 0847-CST (Thursday)
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From: sun!mcrware!jejones (James Jones)
Subject: Kermit68k - Forwarded Messages from info-68k
The following are messages from the info-68k mailing list that I think
would be of interest to mod.os.os9. (Concerning the first one--I know
that there's already at least one Kermit for OS-9, but the more, the
merrier, I figure.)
James Jones
------- Forwarded Messages
>Return-Path: <sun!fluke!sun!ucbvax!jade.berkeley.edu!MAILER@CERNVAX.BITNET>
>Message-Id: <8702111511.AA20421@jade.berkeley.edu>
>From: sun!ucbvax!jade.berkeley.edu!RBG.XX@GEN.BITNET%cernvax.bitnet
>Date: 11 feb 87 15:59 GMT +0100
>To: ucbvax!info-68k
>Subject: Kermit68K implementors wanted
I've developed a Kermit program for the Motorola 68000 family of
processors, designed for portability among 68000 operating systems
and assemblers, particularly those of the sort that are sold as
turnkey systems for lab work, with little or nothing in the way
of utility software or operating system support for many of the
functions we take for granted.
Implementations for VersaDos and CP/M-68K are under development,
there is need for people implementing it under OS9, UniFLEX, PDOS
etc. Any "alpha test" volunteers out there ?
Thank you very much for your attention.
Roberto Bagnara
Physics Department
Bologna University
Italy
BITNet Address: RBG.XX@GEN
------- Message 2
>From: mcvax!HENTHT5.bitnet!WBFTPRAC@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
>Message-Id: <8702101129.AA19112@mcvax.cwi.nl>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 87 12:27 N
>Subject: request for info about os9
>X-Original-To: info-68k-request@ucbvax.UUCP, WBFTPRAC
For my final presentation I have to work with an 68000-based system, working
with an OS-9 operating system. I am desperately looking for more information
about this operating system, especially examples for interrupt handling,
traps and other low-level stuff.
INFO-68K has maybe information about OS9-systems, is that correct ?
Could you tell me how to get more information about OS9 ? I read that archives
are kept on host SIMTEL20 in file PS:<ARCHIVES.68K>68K-ARCHIV.TXT.
I suppose I cannot download these files, because I am on BITNET. Could you
tell me how I can get these archives?
I hope you can help me, NOBODY here knows anything about OS9.
Sincerely,
Jaap Reitsma
mail address: WBFTPRAC@HENTHT5.BITNET
Twente University of Technology
The Netherlands
------- End of Forwarded Messages
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 87 12:27:19 est
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From: decvax!ittatc!bunker!ricker@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Subject: OS-9 Need Info
1) What is the address of MicroWare in Des Moines?
2) Is MicroWare the only licensor?
3) Has any organization completed a port to the Commodore Amiga?
(I had heard that a company called MicroForge was attempting it,
but I think they no longer exist.)
Sorry, if these questions have been answered already. Our news feed is erratic.
Thanks,
Ricker
[Moderator's Notes:
1:
Microware Systems Corporation
Customer Support Department
1900 N.W. 114th Street
Des Moines, Iowa 50322
2: As far as I know... Microware developed OS-9.
3: Does anyone know the answer to this one? I haven't heard. - JDD]
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The views expressed in OS-9 Discussions are those of the individual authors
only. Copies of digests are available by mail request.
------
Moderator: John Daleske cbosgd!cbdkc1!daleske daleske@cbdkc1.ATT.COM
Submissions should go to cbosgd!os9 os9@cbosgd.ATT.COM
Comments to the moderator
or to join the mailing cbosgd!os9-request os9-request@cbosgd.ATT.COM
list.
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End of OS-9 Discussions
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