richardt@orstcs.UUCP (richardt) (07/08/85)
The Idea that an advanced alien race would come to Earth (or anyhere else for that matter) is not as preposterous as it sounds. Isaac Asimov wrote a book in which the plot traced an expedition from Mars to Jupiter to acquire water. This was no small task for the Martians. For the "Visitors" it would be quite a bit easier. It has also been suggested that Jupiter would make a nice fuel stop for interstellar ships leaving or entering the Solar system. Why Jupiter? It would be easier to go and get hydrogen/ water from Jupiter than to lift it off Earth. Now, extrapolate a little. The "Visitors" did not EXPECT that Earth would present any difficulties. Compared to Visitor technology, Earth is still in the dark ages (by about fifty years.) Thus, it would be easier to come to Earth and lift the water out of the gravity well than to synthesize mass quantities of it from Jupiter or another gas giant. First, the Oxygen would have to be shipped to Jupiter. Then it would be combined with the refined hydrogen raked of the atmosphere of Jupiter. Then we ship the whole mess out of Jupiter's gravity well, all several hundred G's of it, and send it to 'The Home Planet.' It would be easier just to lift it out of Earth's gravity well on gravitic jets, which the Visitors use regularly. Especially if we assume that the natives are not going to put up any resistance. After they did, the series turned into a grudge match between Dianna and the Resistance. An intelligent commander would have cut her losses and left, either to get reinforcements and do the invasion right, or to go on to greener pastures. Then there is the matter of food. The Visitors ... Look, they were supposed to come from Rigel. From now on, they're Rigellians... The Rigellians are a carnivorous race. Not omnivorous like Man, but Carnivorous. Vegetable matter is not digested well and they avoid it because it tastes lousy. Similar to the arguments against soyburgers. Now, since the Rigellians 1) expect Earthies to have brains on the order of cattle, 2) like red meat for dinner, 3) have a fresh water problem, 4) assume Earth technology to be just hitting the Bronze Age, and 5) have a relatively unlimited power (gravitic) drive, why won't they come to an alien planet for food and drink? This brings us to the moral issues. First, who are we to assume that slavery is a natural stage in a races development. Relatively few species on Earth have social heirarchies similar to slavery, and very few have any past the mother feeding her young stage. Most of the non-mammals ignore they're young, and only pay attention to other members of their kind when the other member poses a direct threat. So we should not assume that slavery will even occur to them. Two, the Rigellians have conquered other planets before. They may have slaves coming out they're ears on the home planet! Three, the Rigellian society is spartan and militaristic in nature. The thought of having a personal servant could be an insult to their honor. Four, living, intelligent beings use up food, air, space (both in shipment and while working,) and WATER. Now, I think we can discount using un-intelligent animals as slaves. Having slaves would take up valuble natural resources which are already in short supply. The one thing that is surprising about "V" is that the rulers on Rigel left Dianna in charge for so long, and that the NBC producers left it on the air so long. With good scripts, the show could have been excellent. As it is, it should be put out of our misery. orstcs/richardt "If I'm human, what are *YOU*?"
naiman@pegasus.UUCP (Ephrayim J. Naiman) (07/12/85)
> Isaac Asimov wrote a book in which the plot traced an expedition > from Mars to Jupiter to acquire water. Wasn't that Saturn ? -- ==> Ephrayim J. Naiman @ AT&T Information Systems Laboratories (201) 576-6259 Paths: [ihnp4, allegra, mtuxo, maxvax, cbosgd, lzmi, ...]!pegasus!naiman
tomk@ur-laser.uucp (Tom Kessler) (07/12/85)
You don't get the water Hydrogen etc. to make water from Jupiter.
You get it from the moons where there is very little gravity to
overcome.
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Tom Kessler {allegra |seismo }!rochester!ur-laser!tomk
Laboratory for Laser Energetics Phone: (716)- 275 - 5101
250 East River Road
Rochester, New York 14623joel@peora.UUCP (Joel Upchurch) (07/12/85)
>The Idea that an advanced alien race would come to Earth (or >anyhere else for that matter) is not as preposterous as it sounds. >Isaac Asimov wrote a book in which the plot traced an expedition >from Mars to Jupiter to acquire water. This was no small task for the >Martians. For the "Visitors" it would be quite a bit easier. It has also >been suggested that Jupiter would make a nice fuel stop for interstellar >ships leaving or entering the Solar system. Why Jupiter? It would In Asimov's classic story 'The Martian Way' Martain colonists were getting water ice from Saturn's rings instead of from Earth's oceans because of political problems with Earth. It also turned out to be much more economical than hauling water out of Earth's gravity well. The idea of using Jupiter as a refueling station is that you don't have to land, you just skim the edge of the atmosphere and scoop the hydrogen out. The only energy lost is from atmospheric friction. Of course you have haul the fuel you scoop out of Jupiter's gravity well, but you can use part of what you scoop as reaction mass, so you have a net gain.
jpa144@cit-vax (07/14/85)
From: jpa144@cit-vax (Jens Peter Alfke) >> Isaac Asimov wrote a book in whichthe plot traced an expedition >> from Mars to Jupiter to acquire water. > > Wasn't that Saturn ? The story (novelette) is "The Martian Way", and the expedition went to the asteroid belt, I believe. (Makes more sense than Jupiter or Saturn, doesn't it? I could be wrong, however; I don't have a copy of the story.) With regard to the Visitors/Rigellians, I can't imagine a sapient race being stupid enough to think we have a Bronze Age culture -- anyone about to invade a planet would monitor activity (especially radio and TV) on that planet VERY carefully beforehand. If they wanted red meat, they could have caused much less alarm by snatching cows instead ... :-) --Peter Alfke alfke.pasa@xerox -or- jpa144@cit-vax
ethan@utastro.UUCP (Ethan Vishniac) (07/15/85)
Actually I neither know nor care what the Visitors came for. However.. > > >> Isaac Asimov wrote a book in whichthe plot traced an expedition > >> from Mars to Jupiter to acquire water. > > > > Wasn't that Saturn ? > > The story (novelette) is "The Martian Way", and the expedition went > to the asteroid belt, I believe. (Makes more sense than Jupiter or > Saturn, doesn't it? I could be wrong, however; I don't have a copy > of the story.) Sorry, but you are wrong. The expedition went to the rings of Saturn. The water content of asteroids is probably very small. The moons of Jupiter have lots of water, but Asimov implied that even a modest gravitational field would have been a problem. -- "Don't argue with a fool. Ethan Vishniac Borrow his money." {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan Department of Astronomy University of Texas