MINSKY%OZ.AI.MIT.EDU@XX.LCS.MIT.EDU (01/22/87)
Steve Harnad says:
Note: Everyone who is not in the grip of some theoretical
position knows EXACTLY what I mean by the above, and I use
the example of having a current toothache merely as a standard
illustration.
I like this because it is so EXACTLY the opposite of what I think,
namely, that unless a person IS in the grip of some "theoretical
position" - that is, some system of ideas, however inconsistent, they
can't "know" what anything "means"
The distinction between C-1 and C-2 is often formulated as the
distinction between "aware of something" (say, having a
toothache) and "being aware of being aware of something"
(including, say, remembering, thinking about or talking about
having a toothache, or about what it's like to have a toothache).
But note that Steve included "say, remembering..." My point was that
you can't think about, talk about, or remember anything that leaves no
temporary trace in some part of your mind. In other words, I agree
that you can't have C-2 without C-1 - but you can't have think, say,
or remember that you have C-1 without C-2! So, assuming that I know
EXACTLY what he means, I understand PERFECTLY that that meaning is
vacuous.