BARD@MIT-XX.ARPA (07/28/85)
From: Bard Bloom <BARD@MIT-XX.ARPA> > the interface between technology/science and magic. > The only novel we could come up with that really treated the > CO-existence of the two (as opposed to the existence of one through > the other) was OPERATION CHAOS by ... ? (I have forgotten again, > even though it was a fantastic book. Any help?) Was there ever a (2) _Operation_Chaos_ is by Poul Anderson, and I've never heard of a sequel. Pity. He's probably written other science+magic books, though I can't think of any. He should have, anyways. (1) Jack of Shadows, and to some extent Madwand and its sequel which I can't remember, by Zelazny, had magic and science in some moderate juxtaposition; The Cyborg and The Sorcerers, by L. Watt-Evans (I'm 63.1% sure of the Watt, and 4.08% of the Evans, part of his name), had sorcery and science; and I seem to remember that the sorcery was either real or a very unscientific kind of psi. Either way, the book is quite good. Juxtaposition, a trilogy (what else? Save perhaps a 10-book trilogy) by Piers Anthony, had science and magic in closely parallel worlds. I haven't the endurance to reread it and see if one was reduced to the other. For that matter, the Incarnations of Immortality has both, though Anthony's magic is so mechanistic in function and invocation that it's not worth it. How can Incarnations be so impersonal? (0) There are scads of books which reduce magic to science: Lord of Light comes immediately to hand. Are there any which reduce science to magic? (-0.5) What is magic anyways? Most fantasy books I've read seem to treat it as either an equivalent of technology (you use the magic hourglass by changing the color of the sand, or turning it upside down), or of psionics (you throw sheer will at the evil wizard and his spells fribble). In my D&D-variant worlds, it's a personal force: you negotiate with Whoever to get your magic, giving fealty to demon princes or milk and rice-cakes to the Moons Goddess and so on, and usually getting power in return; it is mechanistic to the extent that these Powers behave as predictably as other people, and have some motives for not screwing too many worshippers too badly. I believe that James Blish used a similar technology, if extremely different motives, in _Black_Easter_&_The_Day_After_Judgement_ -- Aha! another science+magic book, and arguably the best of those I've mentioned. Any others? (-1) [For the amusement of H.P. Lovecraft fans] [The reverse of the request, hence the negative index] I've found some books by Brian Lumley, science-fictionalizing the Cthulhu Mythos. **** MARGINAL SPOILER **** Some of the Mythos deities are real, and the characters spend a book or two battling shoggoths and whatnot. Others are -- as of the middle of the second book, and it were amusing if this turned out to be false -- personifications of natural forces: Azathoth, the blind idiot daemon sultan who mutters horribly at the center of the universe, is nuclear energy; Nyalarthotep, the messenger of the Elder Gods, is telepathy; and so on. (I don't see why the characters are so worried about the minor gods. They've gotten rid of -- enslaved! -- the major ones, by turning them into scientific forces. What are a few shoggoths, or even Ithaqua, compared to Azathoth and Nyalrathotep and Shub-Niggurath? 8-) Anyways, this series is truly amusing, with an apparantly serious mix of the space opera (super-scientists design super-gadgets and conquer everything; o.k., Lumley's not that extreme) and H.P. Lovecraft style horror (_Necronomicon_ and _Pnakotic_Manuscripts_ and occultism and slimy nameless horrors and other anonymous atrocities.) Titles: _The_Burrowers_Beneath_, _The_Transition_Of_Titus_Crow_, and probably others. These two are consecutive and probably the beginning of the series. Blessings (generally necessary after discussing Elder Gods), Bard -------