ARMS-D-Request@MIT-MC.ARPA (Moderator) (01/04/86)
Arms-Discussion Digest Saturday, January 4, 1986 10:28AM
Volume 6, Issue 1
Today's Topics:
Peoples summit
50% of weapons fired
Legitimate Soviet Defense Needs
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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 86 09:05 CDT
From: Allen_Sherzer <sherzer%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA>
Subject: Peoples summit
>Jan 1 I saw the Reagan and Gorbachev message exchange; I saw the NBC replay of
>the Seattle/Leningrad Peoples Summit; I saw the Minneapolis/Moscow Childrens
>Summit. It is almost my opinion that there is an inverse correlation between
>the rank of the indivuals involved in the three exchanges and the future
>benefits which will occur to the human species.
>
>Is there anyone out there who also saw the Peoples Summit or the Childrens
>Summit who would like to discuss them a bit?
I read in the paper today that Donahue regreted that the Soviet's
were not very candid. Several participants also criticized the show
because the Soviet's would say nothing bad about the USSR (except
for one man who spoke about water pollution).
The producers of the show said that they were allowed to select anyone
they wanted. Although this may be true, I'm sure there must have been
some screening by the Soviet government. At any rate, I cannot believe
that any Soviet would be dumb enough to criticize Soviet policy in a
forum where the KGB would have access to tapes containing the text
of the criticism.
Allen Sherzer
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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 86 09:07 CDT
From: Allen_Sherzer <sherzer%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA>
Subject: 50% of weapons fired
>In addition I have some where else of a study of the use of fighting in
>WWII. (Again I don't remember the reference). This study indicated that
>something like 50% of the combantants in WWII did not fire their rifles.
>Most of us have a strong built in mechanism that prevents us from killing
>one of our own species. It takes a lot of dehumanising of the enemy to{
>get troops to kill each other.
The study is in the book "Men Under Fire" by General Marshal. In fact
the study indicated that the figure for weapons fired is more like 10%.
The reason he gives is not a "mechanism that prevents us from killing".
Rather it seems to be that when there is about 10,000 people over there
shooting at you, 90% of us seem to want to just find a hole to hide in
and hope we don't get killed. Strange.
The book also makes sugestions on how to train people to better prepare
them for the stress of battle.
Allen Sherzer
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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 86 10:44:16 EST
From: Jeff Miller AMSTE-TEI 4675 <jmiller@apg-1>
Subject: Legitimate Soviet Defense Needs
I wish I wasn't away when you posed your interesting question concerning
legitimate Soviet defense needs.
- A problem in addressing such a question, as I believe Mr. Hamscher attempted
to point out, is one of perception.
Herb Lin's perception of what constitutes legitimate Soviet needs ?
My perception ?
The Kremlin's ?
How do you address the fact that, unlike the West, the Soviets include among
the missions of their military establishment employment against their own
population ?
Are you remembering to enter into the equation the fact that the KGB ( "the
equivalent to our CIA" ) maintains over 250,000 conventionally armed troops
with tank, artillery and mechanized regiments, as well as its own air force
and coastal defense fleet ?
- Your discussions with Hamscher are interesting, but I am surprised they have
remained limited to seapower. I feel like you both are trapped in an ad
nauseum argument akin to the chicken and the egg problem; "which came first,
the US threat or the Soviet response ( >< Soviet threat - US response ) ?"
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I notice some question concerning offensive intent. Here's a little anecdote
about something that seems to most uninteresting, but to me.....
- The Sovs and their E. European allies operate a different guage of
railroad than that of the W. European countries. So far, the vast bulk of east
to west commerce is by trucking, or transshipment to the W. European rail
system. ( By the way, a significant number of the E.Bloc trucks you see on the
Autobahns are driven by GRU and Bloc MI officers gathering road, bridge and
tunnel data - useful for defense, eh? )
Anyhow, Soviet military units in the GDR turned up in possession of a lot
of really spiffy kits which allow rapid conversion of their rolling stock to
travel on W. European rails.
Interestingly enough, none of the NATO allies have the same set-up for
going east.
....I'm sure everyone will decide there's nothing sinister about this.
J.Miller
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End of Arms-Discussion Digest
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