shull@WHARTON-10.ARPA.UUCP (08/03/86)
I recently began investigating medium speed, medium duty-cycle laser
printers to sit on a School-wide network, possibly front-ended by a MicroVAX.
People around here seem to think this means 40 to 80 page per minute (ppm) and
25,000 to 50,000 pages per month.
Although I confess to having been completely brainwashed by Adobe as to
the wonders of PostScript, DEC's 40 ppm PS-40 continues to not be announced,
and the next fastest PS printers are DataProducts' at 26 ppm (but it can't
really interpret the PS that fast), and QMS' at 24 ppm (ditto).
I therefore needed to evaluate printers from Xerox, so I called my local
Xerox Printing Systems Division. I would like the folks from Xerox to pay
special attention, because what I learned isn't really funny.
First, I learned about some of the model numbers, their speeds and prices:
4045 10 ppm, $3,500 - $4,500
8000 is a 4045 for Ethernet
2700 12 ppm, $10,000 - $15,000
3700 24 ppm, $25,000 - $30,000
4050 50 ppm, $100,000, "centralized" printer
4060 same as 4050 but based on ion-deposition
"centralized" means either stand alone with
mag tape for input, or channel connected to
an IBM mainframe.
8700 and
9700 built for speed with greater than 100 ppm and
greater than $150,000.
I assume little or no responsibility for the accuracy of the above data, but
this is my current (lack of) understanding.
Second, I asked what I thought to be a simple question, "Which of these
printers supports Interpress?" Much to my surprise, the answer took the form
of a question, "What is Interpress?" I said, "It is a sophisticated and
powerful page description language and part of XNS." "Oh, who makes it?"
Now at this point, I'm getting pretty worried, but I decide to pursue this
a bit further, so I tell the poor guy that Xerox does. Well he promises to
check on this with some guys who know all about Xerox printers. A week later
he tells me that he got the same response from the "experts" that I got from
him.
Nobody has even heard of Interpress. All anybody knows is that the 4045
has two modes, Diablo emulation, and 2700-II mode. The 2700-II mode is also
in the 2700, 3700, and "most" of the other printers. Now this sounds to me
like 2700-II mode could be the Interpress beast we are looking for. But, if
it is, then why doesn't anybody know? Is Xerox planning to secretly convert
to PostScript and wants to avoid admitting it?
So folks, what's the real story?
-Chris
Christopher E. Shull
Decision Sciences Department
The Wharton School Shull@Wharton-10.ARPA
University of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6366 215/898-5930
------roy@phri.UUCP (08/04/86)
"CHRISTOPHER E. SHULL" <shull@wharton-10.ARPA> writes: [an amusing, and all-too-familiar story of Xerox marketing stupidity] > So folks, what's the real story? I believe the real story is that Xerox marketing people have their heads wedged firmly up their *@#$#$'s (this *is* a family show, isn't it?). We went through much the same deal when we were looking at workstations. I had heard about the Xerox Star workstations and tried to investigate furthur. Just like you, I knew next to nothing about the Xerox product when I went into it, and knew only epsilon more after a few weeks of talking to Xerox marketing. Unfortunately, that next-to-nothing looks like it's a damn sight more than their sales people know. I must be in a bitchy mood tonight -- that makes 2 "to hell with this company" flames in 10 minutes. Oh well.
Michael.Fryd@A.CS.CMU.EDU (X435MF0E) (08/04/86)
Xerox 2700 II mode is NOT the same as Interpress. As of October 1985, the only Xerox printers that supported Interpress were the 8044, 5700, 9700, and 3700. I assume the list has gotten much longer since then. You should also check into which Subset of Interpress each printer actually supports. You may also want to check out font availability. Even though Interpress allows you to scale a font to any size, the printer may implement this with a table lookup to a set of non-scaleable fonts. If this is the case you must obtain (buy) font bitmaps for each size you ever expect to use. Xerox publishes an Interpress newsletter called "Courier". The return adddress for "Courier" is: XEROX Corporation Xerox Systems Institute 2300 Geng Road Palo Alto, CA 94303 I suspect the people at this address have heard of Interpress. Discalimer: All of my information is out of date and unreliable. You should contact XEROX for the latest and correct information. -Michael Fryd arpa: Michael.Fryd@A.CS.CMU.EDU
DRF@SU-SCORE.ARPA (David Fuchs) (08/04/86)
Sorry, but the "2700-II" format is NOT Interpress. It's just a warmed-over version of the old 2700 language. -david -------
KNIGHT@SRI-NIC.ARPA (Bob Knight) (08/05/86)
After reading the previous message and responses to the query from the person at Wharton, and reading this message, specifically: "You should also check into which Subset of Interpress each printer actually supports." ...I am tempted to say that Xerox deserves the fate that they apparently wish upon themselves: absolute failure in the general computing market. Perhaps I am mistaken, but is it not true that the cost of speed in a printing engine is the mechanics, not in the electronics? If so, then one would assume that the electronics (except those that drive the mechanics) would be roughly the same cost from the bottom to top of the line, and, therefore, should support pretty much the same page description language. Adobe seems to be able to do that across a wide performance range of engines, why can't Xerox? Bob -------
phr@PREP.AI.MIT.EDU (Paul Rubin) (08/05/86)
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 86 22:07 EDT From: Michael.Fryd@A.CS.CMU.EDU (X435MF0E) You may also want to check out font availability. Even though Interpress allows you to scale a font to any size, the printer may implement this with a table lookup to a set of non-scaleable fonts. If this is the case you must obtain (buy) font bitmaps for each size you ever expect to use. Steve Procter of the Berkeley VorTeX team has written a program that converts TeX fonts to Interpress fonts, or does something else that allows you to use TeX fonts on an Interpress printer. Contact vortex@renoir.berkeley.edu for details, or maybe it was vortex@ucbvax.berkeley.edu. I don't know anything more about this. There was something about it on this list from Prof. Michael Harrison a couple weeks ago, but I didn't save it.
cetron@UTAH-CS.ARPA (Edward J Cetron) (08/05/86)
Apparently-To: laser-lovers@washington.arpa Well, you got more information than I managed to, our local group new only about the 4050 and only about it when used as a copier.....And after 2 months, they still haven't returned my calls about a demonstration...... And I thought IBM put its customers through the wringer.... -ed
Diebert.pa@XEROX.COM (08/06/86)
Take any print engine you like and use the hardware in the LaserWriter to drive it. You will see very soon that the speed of the print engine makes absolutely no difference in the number of pages per minute you will see. The cost for a print engine is connected with its speed; the electronics cost is very much a function of print speed. I've noticed that Adobe has hired a couple of compiler folks; I wonder why if they really can support PostScript using the same electronics.
geof@imagen.UUCP (Geof Cooper) (08/06/86)
> Perhaps I am mistaken, but is it not true that the cost of speed in > a printing engine is the mechanics, not in the electronics? If so, then > one would assume that the electronics (except those that drive the > mechanics) would be roughly the same cost from the bottom to top of the > line, and, therefore, should support pretty much the same page description > language. > > Adobe seems to be able to do that across a wide performance range of > engines, why can't Xerox? Far be it from me to apologize for Xerox' sales force. But you are being unfair. Xerox' line of interpress printers covers a range of printing speeds from 10 ppm to 120 ppm. This is a much wider range than anyone else in the text-and-graphics world. And the 9700 is MUCH faster than the nearest postscript machine (40 ppm) on the market. - Geof
phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) (08/09/86)
> Second, I asked what I thought to be a simple question, "Which of these > printers supports Interpress?" Much to my surprise, the answer took the form > of a question, "What is Interpress?" I said, "It is a sophisticated and > powerful page description language and part of XNS." "Oh, who makes it?" > > Now at this point, I'm getting pretty worried, but I decide to pursue this > a bit further, so I tell the poor guy that Xerox does. Well he promises to > check on this with some guys who know all about Xerox printers. A week later > he tells me that he got the same response from the "experts" that I got from > him. I have a document from Xerox titled "Open Communications: System Interconnection, Integration and Architecture" and in it they say: "Xerox has implemented Interpress capabilities in over 19 products: ... NS 8000, 3700, 4050, 8700 and 9700... Interpress is a Xerox Print Standard and all appropriate current and future Xerox products will support Interpress." I realize this doesn't help you get more info but it shows some kind of commitment to Interpress from Xerox. Phil Ngai
Frahmann.ESCP8@XEROX.COM (08/11/86)
Recent messages on the Arpanet Laser Lovers have pointed out difficulties in obtaining information about Xerox Interpress printers from the Xerox sales force. I am the marketing manager for Interpress and am now receiving LaserLovers messages To answer Mr. Shull's original question, all current Xerox laser printers sold for use on an Ethernet are Interpress-accepting devices. This includes: - 495-1 facsimile machine, 2 ppm, 200 dpi - 8000 NS laser printer, 10 ppm, 300 dpi - 8044 laser printer, 12 ppm, 300 dpi - 3700 laser printer, 24 ppm, 300 dpi - 4050 laser printer, 50 ppm, 300 dpi - 8700 laser printer, 70 ppm, 300 dpi - 9700 laser printer, 120 ppm, 300 dpi The 495-1, 8000 NS, and 8044 currently support a Xerox-specific set of Interpress fully compatible with Xerox workstation software , and they will support the Interpress 3.0 Publication Set with their next major release of software. The 3700, 4050, 8700, and 9700 currently support the Interpress 3.0 Commercial Set. If anyone in the future has problems obtaining specific information about Xerox Interpress devices from their local marketing representative, please feel free to contact me directly. Dennis Frahmann National Marketing Manager, Interpress Xerox Corporation 880 Apollo Street El Segundo, CA 90245 213 333-6445