phil@nte-scg.UUCP (Phil Trubey) (08/07/85)
Tim Ryan writes... > My machine/net doesn't have postnews (they won't let us have it for > whatever reason) so I'm forced to reply by mail. Perhaps you could > summarize for the net? I did manage to make all the way through > _Dhalgren_, as well as a couple of other Delany novels, though I only > remember _Triton_. Delany's style seems to be that of taking normal > human beings and casting them into an environment of difference, where > every person and every situation is somehow mutated from our "normal" > world. _Dhalgren_ ends up being a circle -- the main character ends up > leaving the city, only to be in the same situation that he was in at > the start of the novel. I don't think there was a "moral" to the > story, either. I saw the story more as a character study. One of the > things that sticks in my mind was that the main character had badly > disfigured hands. Somewhere in the middle of the novel, it is > mentioned that when the war/conflict/catastrophe occurred, one of the > characters helped some people get out of a mental institution, and > helped a young man who's hands were badly burned. Perhaps the main > character is totally insane? I certainly agree with the original > poster and with you that _Dhalgren_ is a bizarre novel. For a short, > classic piece of Delaney, I recommend "Time Considered as a Helix of > Semiprecious Stones." It won a Hugo and is in _The Hugo Winners_. > _Time . . ._ is also more in keeping with what I remember of the rest > of Delaney's novel. -- Phil Trubey Northern Telecom Electronics Ltd. Ottawa, Ontario Mail path: ...!bnr-vpa!nte-scg!phil
jagardner@watmath.UUCP (Jim Gardner) (08/08/85)
In article <124@nte-scg.UUCP> phil@nte-scg.UUCP (Phil Trubey) writes: >Tim Ryan writes... >> One of the >> things that sticks in my mind was that the main character had badly >> disfigured Almost all of Delany's books have a protagonist or major character with disfigured hands. Off the top of my head, this is true of Dhalgren, Triton, the first two Neveryon books (and possibly the third, I haven't read it yet), and Stars in My Pockets Like Grains of Sand. I greatly suspect the same thing is true of Nova. Don't ask me why. Either Delany dislikes his hands, he knows someone with disfigured hands, or it's some literary allusion I don't understand. Jim Gardner, University of Waterloo
crm@duke.UUCP (Charlie Martin) (08/10/85)
In article <16107@watmath.UUCP> jagardner@watmath.UUCP (Jim Gardner) writes: ... abbreviated here ... > >Almost all of Delany's books have a protagonist or major character >with disfigured hands. Off the top of my head, this is true of Dhalgren, >Triton, the first two Neveryon books (and possibly the third, I haven't >read it yet), and Stars in My Pockets Like Grains of Sand. I greatly >suspect the same thing is true of Nova. Absolutely. Prince Red not only has no (right I think) hand, but is actually neurologically damaged in a way that makes a conventional transplant impossible, so that he requires a prosthesis; this is almost unknown in Prince's universe. (I've always wondered how Prince controlled his prosthesis, as I suspect from the book's description that Prince would not only not be able to control the hand directly (the associated part of his brain is missing) but that he would actually have trouble conceiving of the idea of using a right hand, just as my dyslexia makes it difficult for me to even understand that other people can't read mirror writing. But that's another think entirely.) > >Don't ask me why. Either Delany dislikes his hands, he knows someone >with disfigured hands, or it's some literary >allusion I don't understand. Here's my frivolous literary theory of the week (I'm trying to restrict myself until I a) finish the damn' novel or b) finish my damn' thesis): A deformity of the hands could symbolize powerlessness -- an inability to "handle" the world or some part of it. That fits with Nova, at least. -- Charlie Martin (...mcnc!duke!crm)
wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly) (08/13/85)
[from Tim Ryan] >> ... _Dhalgren_ ends up being a circle -- the main character ends up >> leaving the city, only to be in the same situation that he was in at >> the start of the novel. I don't think there was a "moral" to the >> story, either. I saw the story more as a character study. ... >> I certainly agree with the original >> poster and with you that _Dhalgren_ is a bizarre novel. For a short, >> classic piece of Delaney, I recommend "Time Considered as a Helix of >> Semiprecious Stones." ... I personally enjoyed reading "Nova" too, although some of the other people in this group thought it was not one of Delaney's best. It's been quite a few years since I read it, though so I'm not sure what my reaction would be on rereading it. I have to admit I've yet to make it through "Dhalgren;" I'm currently trying it again (but then it took three aborted attempts to get through Thomas Pynchon's "V" :-). The requirement that the novel contain conflict(s) and a denouement is (to the best of my recollection) a more or less European literary tradition. There's a Japanese novel, for example, with a title that has the word "mountain" in it, that is about an old man's experiences as he awaits his death (I can't remember the title or author, unfortunately). The effect is that of a chunk lifted out of the old man's life; this kind of fiction can seem boring to a Western reader who expects a novel to build to one or more climaxes before things are wrapped up at the end (note of course that a lot of 20th century European and American fiction departs from this model, "Dhalgren" being one example). Our definition of Good Story has been conditioned by our experiences as members of 20th century Western society, and we bring to our reading of fiction (SF as well as other genres) certain expectations based on that conditioning that are just as rigid as the Japanese Noh fan's expectations when he goes to view a play. I suspect the difficulty a lot of us have with "Dahlgren" is related to the strength of that conditioning and the difficulty we have in stepping outside its rigid bounds to appreciate a work of art that was crafted to approach the human experience in a different way. I expect I'll end up liking "Dahlgren;" if not, I'll at least appreciate the craftsmanship that went into it. In any case, I'll work for the enjoyment (but part of the kick in reading such a book for me is my response to the demands the author puts on me as a reader). -- Cheers, Bill Ingogly