LYang.es@Xerox.ARPA (08/07/85)
From: LYang.es@Xerox.ARPA (Larry Yang) Many discussions on extraterrestrial life seem to be plagued with one flaw: they all seem to be centered around life AS WE KNOW IT (i.e., carbon-based, "visible"-light seeing, gas-exchanging life). If one believes the more scientific views of the development of this universe, one would have to agree that our existence in this universe is a very improbable occurence. But it happened (sad as it may be to some). But what is the probably of another independently evolving ecosystem JUST LIKE OURS, in some other star system? Pretty unlikely at best, I'd say. I believe that there are other forms of life out there. But they are VERY different from us. They just might be silicon based, derive energy from gamma rays, and "SEE" a totally different wavelength from us. Maybe they're not even based on any form of matter, but purely in the form of energy. (What's the difference anyway; matter is energy, right?) Existence of this form of life would make the definition of "life" and "intelligent life" very elusive. Our anthropocentric definition of "intelligent life" is "life just like ours". The reason "they" haven't found us is because they're looking in the wrong places. The look at our star (good ol' Sol) and say "No, a star of that class could NEVER support intelligent life like ours. Let's go someplace else." Others look at our planet and say "Nope. Too close to the sun." Or "The gravity on a planet of that size would crush anything living on it." There might be a group that react, "That star system is radiating radio waves. Since radio waves are harmful to us, there can't be life there." The point is that the reason no one has found us is the same reason that we haven't found anyone else: we're looking in the wrong types of places. This argument suggests something very distrubing to those who believe in other life forms. How are we going to communicate with them? What if the other life form is anti-matter based? How do we interact with them (Assuming we somehow found each other)? Interracial marriages would be difficult (What kind of children would this marriage produce? Do they marry on that other planet? Do they have children?) Even if there was life of other forms, we may not be able to communicate with any of them. We might as well be alone. -- Larry Too bad; I was looking forward to finding out the latest fashions on Rigel. (Rigel? Why do people always mention Rigel?)
ayers@convexs.UUCP (08/14/85)
/* Written 12:23 pm Aug 7, 1985 by LYang.es@Xerox.ARPA in convexs:net.sf-lovers */ /* ---------- "Who's out there ..." ---------- */ Even if there was life of other forms, we may not be able to communicate with any of them. We might as well be alone. /* End of text from convexs:net.sf-lovers */ Since there is strong evidence that we can't even communicate with each other (see "The History of Garbage -- USENET in the Making") when we share a common language, cultural background, basic education, etc. -- that shouldn't be overly surprising. And for real depression: try locking two politicians from opposing countries in a room together and see how much "communication" gets accomplished. [Even better: read the "local" papers in each country after the politicians return to see how well they understood what the other was saying...] Now the world has gone to bed, Darkness won"t engulf my head, I can see by infrared, How I hate the night. Now I lay me down to sleep, Try to count electric sheep, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. Marvin
ajs@hpfcla.UUCP (ajs) (08/15/85)
> I believe that there are other forms of life out there... Maybe they're > not even based on any form of matter, but purely in the form of energy. > (What's the difference anyway; matter is energy, right?) Maybe, or maybe not. As Richard Dawkins put it so well in "The Selfish Gene": "The universe is populated by stable things." and "All life evolves by the differential survival of replicating entities." To go any farther than wild fantasizing about alternate life-forms, you must postulate a physical system which meets these criteria. The system must be stable ("genes are the true immortals"), support replication, and select more viable arrangements or mutations over less suitable forms. Dawkins went looking for familiar, but non-gene-based, living systems. He found one. It is our social and cultural collection of ideas and concepts, the unit of which he calls a "meme". Memes live in our brains, in fact, parasitize them. They survive, replicate, mutate, and are differentially selected. You have just been parasitized by the only self-referent meme. Alan Silverstein, Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Systems Division, Colorado {ihnp4 | hplabs}!hpfcla!ajs, 303-226-3800 x3053, N 40 31'31" W 105 00'43"