JWHITE%MAINE.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA (08/15/85)
From: JWHITE%MAINE.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA (Jim White) When the first creature from another planet first sets foot, (tenticle, pod, or whatever it may 'set'), on Earth, if it is within our power to do so, we should kill it and eat it. E.T. and Close encounters of the Third Kind aside, real extra terrestrials are unlikely to be so kind and benevolent. A space faring race of beings would be way ahead of us technologically. Being the case, and assuming a continued interaction of two cultures that are many orders of magnitude removed from each other technologically, the less advanced race, (us) would undoubtedly suffer a wide spread collapse of sociological coherance. Consider the cases on Earth that, during the colonial era of 70 to 200 years ago, left advanced western/european societies imposing many of their cultural norms on the countries/areas they occupied. The American Indian, Australian Aboriginal and much of Black Africa today still suffers from the colonial period. Their loosely organized societies were unable to stand up to the much more structured cultures of the colonial powers. That fate would likely await us also. Their culture would undoubtedly be much different from ours, and their technology would be suited to their culture. For us to thus take advantage of their advanced goodies, a dramatic cultural upheaval would be required. Does anyone know of any Sci-fi that deals with this issue? Most I've read runs along these lines; 1) The E.T. type- benevolent cuddly aliens 2) The Childhood's End type- powerful saviors 3) War of the Worlds type- violent encounters 4) The Janissaries- slavers Oh well enough for now. I would be interested in titles/authors that have tried to approach the issue of cultural interaction between very different cultures. Bye Jim White
peter@baylor.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (08/17/85)
> That fate would likely await us also. Their culture would undoubtedly be > much different from ours, and their technology would be suited to their > culture. For us to thus take advantage of their advanced goodies, a > dramatic cultural upheaval would be required. I'd put up with that to get our hands on the technology. Whether we get it from them or develop it ourselves we'd end up with the same rearrangement of our society (ever hear of "future shock"? It's just as real as "culture shock"), so why not do without the waiting period? So what if we end up with a society like theirs? Chances are we would have anyway. I want to visit Beta Lyrae and I'm not going to hang around long enough for us to develop a stardrive. > Does anyone know of any Sci-fi that deals with this issue? Most I've read > runs along these lines; > > > 1) The E.T. type- benevolent cuddly aliens > 2) The Childhood's End type- powerful saviors > 3) War of the Worlds type- violent encounters > 4) The Janissaries- slavers Well, in this case it's the humans coming from space, but how about Tanith Lee's new book? Also, "High Yeild Bondage" by someone I misremember... and Niven's "Leshy circuit" stories. -- Peter da Silva (the mad Australian werewolf) UUCP: ...!shell!neuro1!{hyd-ptd,baylor,datafac}!peter MCI: PDASILVA; CIS: 70216,1076
eyal%wisdom.bitnet@WISCVM.ARPA (08/21/85)
From: Eyal mozes <eyal%wisdom.bitnet@WISCVM.ARPA> > That fate would likely await us also. Their culture would > undoubtedly be much different from ours, and their technology would > be suited to their culture. For us to thus take advantage of their > advanced goodies, a dramatic cultural upheaval would be required. And what makes you think such an upheaval will be bad for us? There are certainly many things I don't like in our culture today - and the alternative you're talking about is a culture which was able to reach the stars! > Oh well enough for now. I would be interested in titles/authors that > have tried to approach the issue of cultural interaction between > very different cultures. Try Poul Anderson, particularly in the Polesotechnic League - Terran Empire series. He usually looks from the other end of the stick (WE are the aliens coming to a less advanced culture), but he does handle the issue in a very interesting and thoughtful manner. Eyal Mozes BITNET: eyal@wisdom CSNET and ARPA: eyal%wisdom.bitnet@wiscvm.ARPA UUCP: ..!decvax!humus!wisdom!eyal
bnw@crash.ARPA (08/21/85)
From: <crash!bnw@nosc.ARPA> JWHITE%MAINE.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA (Jim White) writes: >When the first creature from another planet first sets foot, >(tenticle, pod, or whatever it may 'set'), on Earth, if it is within >our power to do so, we should kill it and eat it. Not a good idea. If we landed someone on another planet and the local primitive-compared-to-us natives promptly made a meal of the astronaut, we would probably respond by conquering the planet, killing a fair number of natives in the process. We could be on the receiving end of that. I think your fears are unnecessarily bleak. Although Western society subjugated natives in four continents, we weren't as far above them as we would like to pretend. Any star-voyaging race that finds us will be further ahead of us than we are ahead of Cro-Magnon man. Moreover, I don't believe that it is possible for any society to reach the level of distant star exploration until it learns to behave itself in its own backyard. Star travelling peoples won't have fought a war in several generations. They aren't going to re-learn just for us. For some good books about the meeting of two radically different cultures, try H. Beam Piper's "Fuzzy" novels. They don't fall into any of the four categories you mentioned ("cuddly" would only fit a very shallow reading). /Bruce N. Wheelock/ arpanet: crash!bnw@ucsd uucp: {ihnp4, cbosgd, sdcsvax, noscvax}!crash!bnw
judith@proper.UUCP (Judith Abrahms) (08/21/85)
In article <> JWHITE%MAINE.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA writes: > >When the first creature from another planet first sets foot, (tenticle, >pod, or whatever it may 'set'), on Earth, if it is within our power to do >so, we should kill it and eat it. If you hadn't added "and eat it," I might have had to conclude that (gaak!) you were serious! >E.T. and Close encounters of the Third Kind aside, real extra terrestrials >are unlikely to be so kind and benevolent. And it's therefore the best policy to scare hell out of them by eating one... > ...A space faring race of beings >would be way ahead of us technologically. Being the case, and assuming a >continued interaction of two cultures that are many orders of magnitude >removed from each other technologically, the less advanced race, (us) >would undoubtedly suffer a wide spread collapse of sociological coherance. We can avoid this by shooting the first explorer. The rest of them will just conclude that we're too tough to mess with! >Consider the cases on Earth that, during the colonial era of 70 to 200 >years ago, left advanced western/european societies imposing many of >their cultural norms on the countries/areas they occupied. The American >Indian, Australian Aboriginal and much of Black Africa today still >suffers from the colonial period. Their loosely organized societies were >unable to stand up to the much more structured cultures of the colonial >powers. Just think! If a few of these American Indians and Black Africans had just had the foresight to kill and eat the first Western Europeans they met, the Western Europeans would have given up and gone away. Too bad they were so hospitable to us! > ... Their culture would undoubtedly be >much different from ours, and their technology would be suited to their >culture. For us to thus take advantage of their advanced goodies, a >dramatic cultural upheaval would be required. So rather than risk going nuts by trying to assimilate their technology, let's risk finding ourselves on the receiving end of it! Or were you planning to disable the alien's communicator so he can't phone home? Good luck!
jeffh@brl-sem.ARPA (the Shadow) (08/21/85)
>That fate would likely await us also. Their culture would undoubtedly be >much different from ours, and their technology would be suited to their >culture. For us to thus take advantage of their advanced goodies, a >dramatic cultural upheaval would be required. > >Does anyone know of any Sci-fi that deals with this issue? > >Oh well enough for now. I would be interested in titles/authors that have >tried to approach the issue of cultural interaction between very different >cultures. CJ Cherryh has some books dealing with this sort of thing, the FADED SUN trilogy deals with three very different races trying to interact after the end of a generations-old war. In the Chanur books, the hani are still dealing with the after effects of being turned into a space-faring race in a generation. This is brought out a little more in the most recent book, CHANUR'S VENTURE. One of my favorites is HUNTER OF WORLDS; it's about a race that barges into human space in order to settle an old score, using humans (and other beings) as pawns in their game. "Do not get mad at an elf." the Shadow ARPA: <jeffh@brl> UUCP: {seismo,decvax}!brl!jeffh
CJC@psuvm.BITNET (08/24/85)
"The Flying Sorcerers" by David Gerrold & Larry Niven is a very thorough
account of what happened when one enthusiastic Terran anthropologist went
to a rather harsh world with a strong-minded and intelligent, but
technologically primitive race.
ccrdave@ucdavis.UUCP (Lord Kahless) (08/26/85)
> Although Western society > subjugated natives in four continents, we weren't as far above them as we > would like to pretend. Any star-voyaging race that finds us will be further > ahead of us than we are ahead of Cro-Magnon man. > Star travelling peoples won't have fought a war in several > generations. They aren't going to re-learn just for us. > /Bruce N. Wheelock/ I see no reason to believe the above statements. Let's look at Earth history. Wars are probably the greatest motivation for technology in mankind's history. Look at how much money was spent for R & D during W W II. Look at the results of the short period between 1935 and 1945. The A bomb, the suborbital rocket, the computer, and radar, all developed during that brief period. Think where we would be now if we had been spending as much money on development over the last forty years as we did during that period. How much closer would we be to the stars? Would we have already gained a foothold on the outer planets? Would we have plans for the stars? I believe an alternate view. A society of ruthless high technology warriors, who remain high technology by putting their resources into R & D and get the resources by warfare. Lord Kahless ucbvax!ucdavis!vega!ccrdave