ANK@CUNYVMS1.BITNET.UUCP (02/17/87)
I WAS HOPING THAT THIS TOPIC JUST GOT OVER WITHOUT MY GETTING INVOLVED IN THE DISCUSSION, SINCE I AM A STUDENT AND ALSO A VMS CONSULTANT. BUT MARTIN'S COMMENTS UPSET ME ENOUGH TO REPLY. >>From: EE101%SYSA.SALFORD.AC.UK@CS.UCL.AC.UK >I think students should not have access even some members of staff COME ON MARTIN THERE ARE ENOUGH TECH-DOCUMENTS AND VMS DOCUMENTS AROUND THAT ANYONE COULD WITHIN TWO HOURS HACK IT....IF SHE/HE WANTED TO. STAFF !!! IF YOU MEAN FACULTY, THEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING COMING...TRY TELLING ONE THAT ! IT'S QUITE A SOBERING EXPERIENCE. >Think about the poor person who has just got a vax and has be declared >systems manager (to which he has no knowledge of vms) Yes this does happen >well in our university it does. His bosses exspect him to have it installed and working >working in a few weeks. WHAT KIND OF AN ARGUMENT IS THIS ? SO YOU HAVE A NOVICE, AND YOU EXPECT HER/HIM TO BE PROTECTED BY STIFFLING THE ENVIRONMENT FOR OTHERS ? NO SIR, NO ! THIS WILL ONLY BREED MEDIOCRACY....AS FOR THE BOSSES, WELL THEY CANNOT HAVE BOTH WAYS. TO HIRE A NEW PERSON AND EXPECT RESULTS NEXT MORNING.... >Should we not offer as much support as possible to this >person by limiting peoples access to this list. We all make mistakes when we >first get a new machine (security wise protection) And its the classic case YOU DON'T PUT MANY USERS ON A NEW MACHINE, LET ALONE ASSIGN IMPORTANT DOC'S AND DATA TO IT. IF I WERE TO TRUST, IT WOULD RATHER BE AN EXPERIENCED STUDENT-HACK THAN A GREEN SYSTEM-MANAGER. BELIEVE ME, A TRUE-HACKER DOES NOT MESS WITH DATA. I FIND UNINTENTIONAL SCREW_UPS BY ADM's MORE SERIOUS THAN STUDENTS READING INFO-VAX DIGESTS. >So the moral of this story is..... >Think back when you first met VMS. (as a Sys_Admin) would you want a student >knowing more than you?????? SIR, YOU HAVE A VERY SENSITIVE SPOT; vis-a-vis STUDENTS. LET ME REMIND YOU THAT SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT SOFTWARE AND HARDWARE HACKS CAME OUT DURING THE STUDENT-DAYS. YOU SHOULD READ "HACKERS" by LEVY to understand the ethics of hacking. THE PROBLEM DEAR BRUTUS, IS NOT THE HACKERS BUT THE PERSON WHO THINKS SO..... I SUGGEST WE FOCUS ON NOT STUDENTS BUT OTHER CRIMINAL MINDS. MARTIN ASSIGNS CRIMINAL INTENT ON PERSONS WHOSE ONLY CRIME 'BEING A STUDENT' UNFORTUNATELY ETHICS AND MORALITY IS NOT IN THE EXCLUSIVE DOMAIN OF 'STATUS, student staff faculty operator......' but in the in the values that one grows to believe in. Anil {Ph.D. Prog. in Psychology C.U.N.Y. Grad. Center. New York, NY 10036} (BY THE WAY I FIND THE REPEATED USE OF "HE" FOR SYSTEM-ADM SLIGHTLY SEXIST, TO SAY THE LEAST........I FORGIVE THEE, BECAUSE TO ERR IS HUMAN AND FORGIVE DIVINE........he!he!he!.....{no offense martin !})