Info-IBMPC@USC-ISIB.ARPA (Info-IBMPC Digest) (11/13/85)
Info-IBMPC Digest Tuesday, 12 November 1985 Volume 4 : Issue 130 This Week's Editor: Billy Brackenridge Today's Topics: AT Clock Crystal and Xenix Query WordPerfect Printer Drivers 386 in an AT Lisp for IBM PC Query PCVMS and OS Toolbox Query 32032 Coprocessor Boards for IBM/AT (3 Msgs) Apple LaserWriter, XyWrite III, and DR Gem Draw Polariod Palette / GemDraw IBM Pro FORTRAN and EGA Problem C Routines for Lotus/Intel Above Board Addressing Query 8088 Disassemblers Query Everex Edge w/ Amdec 310A Monitor Problem Wordstar User Patches Query UNIX|STAT on MSDOS Resetting the PC Cursor Math Text Editor Query HELP: Graphics Terminal Emulator Remote use of PCs PC-USPCE Color Terminal Emulation Package One Finger Typing Routine (2 Msgs) Diablo 10MB Hard Disk MIX C LARGE Scale Programming Japanese Wordprocessing Query Graphics. Problem with dBASE-II TCP/IP and FTP for MS-DOS? How and Why to Build an Echo Host V20 Test Results WORDSTAR Files to WORD PERFECT? COMPAQ DeskPro Speed Switch (solution!) Compaq MODE command How Does SideKick Work? Sidekick Version 1.5 ASMGEN External files in Turbo Pascal AT Real Time Clock Query DOS 3.1 Clock ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Nov 85 15:22: PST From: Richard Bass <bilbo.rwb@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU> Subject: AT Clock Crystal and Xenix Query I gather that there has been much discussion about raising the 286's clock rate in an AT from 6Mhz to 8Mhz (or more). Unfortunately, I think I missed most of it. I would really like to hear from anyone who has had any experience with changing the AT's clock crystal on an AT running Xenix. Thanks in advance. Richard Bass Locus Computing Corporation lcc!rwb@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU {ucivax,trwrb}!lcc!rwb {ihnp4,randvax,sdcrdcf,ucbvax,trwspp}!ucla-cs!lcc!rwb ------------------------------ From: lotto%lhasa@harvard.HARVARD.EDU Date: 2 Nov 85 14:42 EST To: harvard!cf4a8x%irishmvs.bitnet@wiscvm.arpa Subject: WordPerfect Printer Drivers Word Perfect printer "drivers" are easy to build as long as you make room for them. The printer file can hold only a limited number (32)? and probably should contain only those which are directly useful to save on space. The others can be found in external files (in version 4.1) called WPRINTER.1, .2, .3... I have written a few new printer definition tables (what you refer to as drivers) as well as font tables (which are independent) for apple laser and imagewriter printers. Additionally, 4.0 tables will be converted by WordPerfect, so your old tables may be translated. Start by deleting all of the drivers you do not usually need using the PRINTER program (if they are unchanged from the distribution disk, they can be recovered from the archives). Start from the end and work backwards to save time. Then run WordPerfect and from the Printer Control menu select "3" - Select Printers. This is all documented in the installation manual p 22. There is a typo on p 24 however, you need to use PgDn to display the additional printers available. From here you may add other printers to the main file. You can install the same def. in different numbers for later modification. Now run the PRINTER program with the new WPRINTER.FIL file within reach and select Printer Definition. Start with one that matches your target as closely as possible to avoid extra work, and step through the menus modifying each slot as needed. Reading a few existing tables before you start making changes will help. If you have special print wheels, define them as fonts and then "install" the new fonts in the printer definitions. There are archives of font files as well, but the only way to get at them appears to be by renaming them to WPFONT.FIL. An apparent oversight, I cannot find any reference to them in the documentation. SSI provides toll free support which is generally helpful and usually available. If you still have trouble, give them a shout. Good Luck. ------------------------------ From: Ken Shoemaker <kds%i80386.uucp@BRL.ARPA> Subject: 386 in an AT Date: 30 Oct 85 23:19:40 GMT First, thanks for all the offers of congratulations! Second, an apology for this note being a little late, I was out of town for a while, but as a result, Unix has now been running on the 386 on 3 continents! There has been a bit of confusion about plugging the 386 into an AT. While it is possible, it requires an interface card, since at 132 pins, the 386 isn't drop-in, pin compatible with the 286. What the 386 does provide is a 16-bit bus option, which makes running the 386 into the AT socket (or any other 286 socket) pretty simple. While the card that I have here uses 7 chips to do it, I've heard that some of our customers get away with as few as 3. Also, with the simple minded interface cards we use, we introduce a wait state over the 286, and run at the same speed as the 286. This makes us incredibly bus bound, and what this means is that you don't get much of a performance improvement with this interface card running straight 286 code. In fact, depending on the application, yet another wait state can lead to a slight performance degradation. Of course, if you wanted to go all out, make an asynchronous card, and run the 386 at 16 MHz, you'd probably get more of an improvement. And, again, if you were to re-compile your programs to take advantage of the architectural enhancements of the 386, you could also get more of a performance improvement. For us, the main idea of the interface card was to allow us to run as much software as early as possible to check out the chip. Being able to plug the 386 into the PC-ATs out there and still have a functional PC-AT (you really still can run Lotus, Wordstar, Flight Simulator, whatever) is a great way to check out the 386 and to allow early software development for the 386, but it isn't a real good way to benchmark the part for performance. As to the operating system that we are running here, this is a modified version of xenix 286, release 3 for the Intel 286/310 box. Using the same interface card as is used in a PC-AT, I have plugged the 386 into the 286 socket on the 286/10 card. This is a fully protected mode 286 operating system, using the integrated memory management and protection hardware of the 286, and now the 386. While it would be possible to compile and execute programs on the box (in fact, it has been done), this is not an appropriate showcase for the 386 performance, since the compiled code would also run on a 286, and because we are running over a 16-bit bus at 1/3 the clock rate of the 386 with (I think) 3 wait states. I am working right now on being able to run 386 code on a 386 system. This entails adding a loader to xenix to handle the 32-bit programs, and porting xenix 286 over to the 386/20 card I have right here (and a few other modifications to the kernel, which could be major or minor, depending on how carried away I get). I really don't know when this will be done, since I am going to be away again in a few days for a few weeks. In the interum, others here are looking for alternate ways to run benchmarks. Their results should be available shortly. If you are looking for other information about the 386, you can look in the October 17th issue of Electronic Design, wherein is contained our intro article, which is the first of a three-part series. Of course, most any other electronic magazine, newspaper, what have you, has had some mention about the 386. We even made the Wall Street Journal and the London Times. And finally a correction. Pete Kaiser at DEC notified me that the MicroVAX II was running Ultrix on the net before they announced it. I guess that puts us in good company! ------------------- Ken Shoemaker, 386 design team, Intel Corp., Santa Clara, California {hplabs,pur-ee,qantel,amdcad,dual}!intelca!i80386!kds {hplabs,pur-ee,qantel,amdcad,dual}!intelca!kds ------------------------------ From: William Howell <howell@unc.uucp> Subject: Lisp for IBM PC Query Date: 31 Oct 85 14:47:32 GMT I am trying to locate a good Lisp for development of an expert system on an IBM-PC/AT. The final system may eventually be ported to a UNIX 4.2 system so some compatibility with Lisps for UNIX would be of help. Pointers to tools for building expert systems and/or other suitable languages would also be helpful. Also any pointers to reviews of suitable products that have appeared in the trade journals would be very helpful. I'd appreciate replys by mail, as I do not generally read all of these newsgroups. Thanks in advance. US MAIL: William Howell University of North Carolina New West Hall 035A Chapel Hill, NC 27514 PHONE: 919-962-7103 USENET: decvax!mcnc!unc!howell CSNET: howell@unc ARPANET: howell%unc@csnet-relay ------------------------------ From: "Timothy A. Johnson" <johnson@nosc> Subject: PCVMS and OS Toolbox Query Date: 2 Nov 85 01:29:59 GMT I am interested in a product called PCVMS and one called Operating System Toolbox, both by Wendin in Cheney, WA. Has anyone out there used either of these products and if so, what has been your opinion of them? With regard to PCVMS, how close to DECs DCL is it? Timothy A. Johnson Computer Sciences Corporation [I sent a check off to them more than a week ago but nothing has arrived yet. -wab] ------------------------------ From: Les Kent <les@proper.uucp> Subject: 32032 Coprocessor Boards for IBM/AT Date: 2 Nov 85 22:42:34 GMT To: info-ibmpc@usc-isib.ARPA Im interested in coprocessor cards for an IBM/AT. I have found four cards based on the National 320xx. Here are the ones I have found so far: o Opus Systems, Cupertino CA They have two configuraions available. One with the 32032 and the other with the 32016. Memory sizes of 1MB, 2MB and 4MB. It runs System V R2 V2 with virtual memory. They said they are working on networking support using Excelan software and hardware but did not give an exact date. They seemed to be organized and on the ball. The information they sent is very nicely done and is informative. o Sritek, Cleveland OH They have one model available using the 32016 with 2MB of memory. The information I received says it is expandable to 8MB. It runs Genix 4.1 BSD with virtual memory support. I was not very impressed with Sritek for a number of reasons. First the salesperson the I talked with was not very technical or knowledgable about the product. Second on the information I received, dated January 1985, It talks a lot about Genix 4.2 yet when I call, In November 1985, Im told that Genix 4.2 is not available yet! Most of the other information I received were reprints from a magazine article in a 1983 Byte and one from a 1983 PC World. Seems to me like Sritek started out with some great ideas that died somewhere along the way. o Definicon Systems, Chatsworth CA This board was featured in a two part article in the August and September 1985 Byte. They have one board but allows options of either a 32032 or a 32016. It comes with as little as 256K and can be expanded to at least 2MB. This board also includes two serial ports. I had a very good talk with a techincal sales engineer and got a lot of in depth information on their product. He did make a point of saying that they run there board at 10Mhz and that no other folks doing coprocessor stuff could do that. At this time they only have an interface between MS-DOS, and Concurrent DOS. They have available C, FORTRAN and PASCAL that run stand alone in the coprocessor card. The person I talked to said they hope to have UNIX V V2 R2 in about a month. They same outfit that ported the Opus UNIX is porting their UNIX so the time frame might be correct. o Tektronix, Beaverton OR This board is still a mystery to me. It is a new product and the field sales offices do not yet know a lot about it. I do know that it runs Utek, their version of 4.2BSD that is the same as the 6000 family of workstations. Utek looks like a very nice version of UNIX that has a mix of 4.2 BSD and System V. They also have there own distributed file system, networking, improved virtual memory support. The main thing I don't know right now is if they will be offering this product as an upgrade product for someone with an existing IBM/AT or if you have to get the whole system from them. These are the boards based on the National 320xx processors. I have not yet looked at any other types of processors. I would think that maybe a 68020 would be great but I think it would be hard to fit on a board that small. Does anyone have any experience with any of the above boards? Do you know of any other coprocessor boards? Does XENIX run well enough on an AT that a coprocessor is not required? The big problem is that all of the above products have strengths and weakneses. As an example the Opus product seems to be the most mature yet does not have networking yet. The Sritek runs a BSD unix (I prefere) yet they don't have 4.2. The Definicon product is not complete but seems to have a speed advantage when it comes out. The Tektronix system seems perfect but might not be available as an add on, and I have two AT's allready, and also might be too expensive. I hope to find out more on the Tektronix product this week. Les Kent {qantel,dual,amdahl,intelca}!proper!les Vision Computers dual!proper!les@BERKELEY ------------------------------ From: "Harry W. Reed" <doon@sdcrdcf.uucp> Subject: 32032 Coprocessor Boards for IBM/AT Date: 5 Nov 85 19:18:59 GMT I have a friend who recently purchased the Definican DSI-32 for his AT. And being his only "system programmer", here are my impressions of the card. 1.) It's cute! A 32000 along with 2Mbytes of memory. The card has grat potential. 2.) The software supplied with the card is quite minimal. For the price of the card you receive a 32000 assembler and public domain versions of lisp and forth. I haven't played with the lisp/forth yet but, it is slightly a pain to create and run 32000 assembly language programs. The difficulty being that they give you very little documentation on the boards hooks into MS-DOS, so making the board do something useful can take quite a bit of "playing around" to see what works. They also do not give you any type of librarian to consturct you're own function libraries! (But what do I expect for $3500 anyway??) so this is another sore point. 3.) All in all without UNIX, I think, that the card is pretty much useless. Sure, it can run assembly language programs fatster than you can bat an eye, but there's just not much that you can do with it. Definicon is promising UNIX shortly. It is my opinion that the card will only really do well in a UNIX enviromment. Lets hope that it comes out soon. ------------------------------ From: Steve Childress <steve@wlbr.uucp> Subject: 32032 Coprocessor Boards for IBM/AT Date: 6 Nov 85 21:19:35 GMT If you want a 32016 add-on board for a PC with Sys V, look at the Opus board. (Opus is in the San Jose area). We like 'em. Regards, Steve Childress Eaton IMS R&D Group MS 43 31717 La Tienda Drive Westlake Village, CA 91360 (818) 889-2211 X2148 {trwrb, scgvaxd, ihnp4, voder, vortex} !wlbr!steve or ...wlbr!wlbreng1!steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 85 01:02 EST From: "Roger C. King" <RCKing@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA> Subject: Apple LaserWriter, XyWrite III, and DR Gem Draw This is mildly ecstatic short review of the above combination when used with an IBM AT. I have been beta testing for some time XyQuest's XyWrite III <to be released about 15 Nov., but don't hold me to it> in combination with an Apple LaserWriter. XyWrite III supports any proportional font you can describe in a font width table, and as such supports all the internal Helvetica, Times Roman, Greek, and Courier fonts in the Apple LaserWriter. At this point in time, and probably at release, the user must insert his/her own PostScript code into a *.PRN file which XyWRite uses. Once this is done, the results are very impressive since any font can be scaled to any size without any loss of detail. (even one letter per page!) Viewgraphs can be made directly on transparency as with all Canon engine machines. Also, any PostScript code describing any graphics/text image can be inserted into documents for printing on output. Now enters Digital Research's Gem Draw. At Adobe's suggestion, I sought out a copy of Gem Desktop version 1.2 which supports PostScript on the Apple LaserWriter. This was not easy. It seems that DR has continued shipping desktop version 1.0 for sometime, and it is impossible to tell from the box what version of the desktop is inside. For example, we finally found 1.2 Desktop in a version 1.0 Gem Collection which includes the Desktop, Gem Write, and Gem Paint, but not Gem Draw which had to be purchased separately. Having finally got all the pieces, I found Gem Draw capable of producing phenomenal images on the LaserWriter. Full 300x300 dot per inch output is possible EVEN THOUGH I GET ONLY 200 by 640 in CGA emulation on my Professional Graphics monitor. To say this another way, Gem Draw Draw is not a 'what-you-see is what-you-get' product, but more accurately a 'what-you-get is MORE than what-you-see' product. It keeps internal all line, box, shading, curve, etc. images as high level descriptions, then describes these to the LaserWriter in PostSCript, not as a bit map, and then the LaserWriter does the raster-scan conversion to dots after the image elements have all been described. Gem paint, on the other hand, must send a bit map to the LaserWriter which is them limited in resolution to what-you-see is what-you-get. Gem Desktop 1.2 also fully supports the EGA. Although the interface to the LaserWriter is a 9600 serial connection, the largest delay is in the computations that have to take place in the LaserWriter to put the high level image descriptions down on paper. The longest delay I typically experience is a minute or so, with 20 or 30 seconds typical of word processing documents. I am told that some of the same images require 10 or 15 minutes each to print on an Epson. Recall that a LaserWriter has a 68000, 1.5 Meg RAM, 0.5 Meg ROM, and a 12 MHZ clock. The only major outstanding problem with the LaserWriter/PC interface is the lack of XON/XOFF support on the PC side, and the lack of any other support on the LaserWriter side. Gem Desk 1.2 provides background spooling and XON/XOFF support, but XyWrite III does not currently support XON/XOFF. There are, however, a number of communications software packages that do provide XON/XOFF which can be used to send XyWrite III files to the LaserWriter. I expect to see XON/XOFF support directly from XyQuest sometime in the near future, but I do not speak for XyQuest, (or Adobe, or DR). I have one question. Being new to Gem Desk, I would appreciate it if someone could point out a technique for spooling the raw printer output from Gem Draw into a file so that I could then imbed the PostScript code directly into my XyWrite Documents for more direct integration. Roger King MIT Lincoln Laboratory ------------------------------ From: Steven Taylor <taylor@ecsvax.uucp> Subject: Polariod Palette / GemDraw Date: 5 Nov 85 16:36:25 GMT I am strongly considering purchasing a Polaroid Palette, Enhanced Graphics borad & Monitor, and Gem Draw for production of 35mm slides for presentations. However I would really appreciate any comments from anyone who has used a simialr set-up. Also, the following have not been answered to my satisfaction: 1) I am told that Gem-Draw support the Palette. Can anyone confirm? 2) Has "pprint" been modified to support the EGA? 3) Has "psaver" been modified to support the EGA? Thanks for your help. Steven Taylor Distributed Networking Associates 119 Doncaster Lane Charlottesville, VA 22901 (804) 979-0656 ------------------------------ Date: 17 Oct 85 11:29 EDT From: CFMucken @ DDN2.ARPA Subject: IBM Pro FORTRAN and EGA Problem A co-worker has been trying to use IBM Professional FORTRAN,aka Ryan-McFarland FORTRAN, on a PC with an 8087 and EGA. It doesn't work. Apparently, the RM-Fortran tries to determine if an 8087 is present when it is called, the EGA some how traps the BIOS calls and returns indicating that there is no 8087 installed, which conflicts with the command entered, so it aborts. RM is aware of the problem and will supply a patch which NOPs this section of the startup routine, this is all well and good, except that IBM does not acknowledge the problem (it appears to be an EGA induced error) so no patch is available from them. Does anyone have the RM patch, I really don't want to run through the startup in DEBUG to find it myself. Thanks in advance, Carl F. Muckenhirn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 85 11:54:57 CST From: fenchel@rsch.wisc.edu (Bob Fenchel) Subject: C Routines for Lotus/Intel Above Board Addressing Query Does anyone know of the availability of routines written in 'C' (preferably, Lattice C) to access extended memory (added with Lotus/Intel Above Board std) on a PC? Please respond directly to me. Fenchel@uwisc ------------------------------ Date: 5 Nov 1985 09:30-EST Subject: 8088 Disassemblers Query From: ABN.ISCAMS@USC-ISID.ARPA NetLandians, For quite a while I've contentedly disassembled files in my CP/M environment with a commercial 8080/Z80 disassembler, REVASZ .. worked just fine, interactive, etc. I've been researching something similar for MS-DOS and have seen NOTHING that even resembles it! Some brag of being able to identify data and ASCII sequences, etc., but none seem to be interactive at ALL! Plenty of debuggers .. but that's not what I want to do. Also, the ASMGEN.COM disassembler in PC-BLUE Volume 068 gives me problems: it will NOT read any sort of SEQ instruction file as explained in its .DOC .. not even one with a single remark in it. Anyone else ever play with this program and have similar problems .. or more importantly, have it work as it was supposed to? I used the version stored at SIMTEL20 in <PC-BLUE.VOL068>. Thanks in advance, David Kirschbaum Toad Hall ABN.RSC@USC-ISID ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 85 11:20:37 EST From: Steven Segletes <steven@BRL-TBD.ARPA> Subject: Everex Edge w/ Amdec 310A Monitor Problem I have just purchased an XT with an Everex Graphics Edge card and an Amdec 310A monitor. This card allows one to run both monochrome features and IBM Color Graphics features on a monochrome display. I have just realized (the hard way) that horizontal sync pulse on the Amdec is different from the IBM monitor. The monitor symptoms when used with the Everex Card are as follows: 1) in either (not both) of monochrome or color mode, I can get a beautiful display as advertised. 2) Upon switching to the other display mode, the image is shifted right or left (depending on whether mono or color image was initially aligned) about 1/2 screen (too much to correct with the MODE command). This means of course that a good fraction of the image shows up stretched and reversed on the beam retrace. I see my options as: 1) return the monitor for a (what I consider to be inferior quality) IBM Mono display (I presume that it will not exhibit the same symptoms). 2) return the Graphics Edge, despite the fact that its features (both mono and Color displays on monochrome monitor) are exactly what I need. 3) Kill the salesperson at Arlington Computer Products (Ill.) who recommended this combination (pretty hard to do long distance). 4) Put up with the nuisance of realigning the monitor every time I switch modes (this means with a screwdriver, unless I develop a kludge to get around it). 5) Appeal to info-pc for help from people who have gone through the ordeal, and have come up with a clever hack already. As you might have guessed, I have decided to go with Option 5 at the present. Thanks for any advice/experiences/etc. Steve Segletes US Army Ballistic Research Laboratory APG, MD 21005-5066 <steven@brl.arpa> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 85 19:55:44 EST From: Thomas_Ackenhusen%UB-MTS%UMich-MTS.Mailnet@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA Subject: Wordstar User Patches Query I have been trying to find a book/disk pack called Underground Wordstar which contains user patches to Wordstar to make it do such things as backspace when the backspace key is hit, etc. I remember seeing it mentioned in PC Magazine about 6-8 months ago, but I have lost the name of the publisher and the author. I have tried several computer stores, but to no avail. I was wondering if anyone knew about this book and could tell me the publisher or where to get a copy. I realize that I should turn in my antiquated version of Wordstar for a new and easier word processor, but I am loath to render useless my knowledge of Wordstar's cryptic commands. I would really appreciate any help that could be given. Thanks a lot. Tom Ackenhusen ------------------------------ From: Gary Perlman <perlman@wanginst.uucp> Subject: UNIX|STAT on MSDOS Date: 4 Nov 85 19:16:48 GMT PUBLIC DOMAIN STATISTICS FOR MSDOS Thanks to my efforts with Fred Horan at Cornell University, I am pleased to announce the release of UNIX|STAT 5.1 on MSDOS. With very few exceptions, the programs are functionally identical to those running on UNIX. Later in this message are the contents of the three double-sided double density 360K diskettes that make up the distribution. The CPU requirements are 96K or better. Hard disks are preferred, of course, but the programs are useful with just floppy drives. The operating system requirement is vanilla MSDOS, which means the programs will run on IBM PC's (all models), AT&T PC's running MSDOS, Wang PC's, and probably others (which I have not yet tried). To get your floppy diskettes and paper documentation, here is what you do. Read carefully, because I will not be devoting much effort to explaining why I could not fill incorrect requests. To right-thinking and reponsible persons, I apologize for the tone of the instructions, but I am sure YOU can understand what problems I have faced sending out over 400 mag tapes over the past five years. I do not intend to face the same problems with the MSDOS distribution. 1. Send me a check or money order in US funds for $15. It should be made out to me personally. Personal notes and invoices are not acceptable. There is no company behind this, which explains why the distribution is $15. Don't give me sob stories about all the paperwork involved in getting a company/government check made out to a non-entity; you can fork over the $15 yourself. This cost applies worldwide, so people in other countries need not send more. The cost also covers me for later releases that will have four or five floppies. 2. Include your return mailing address in a block format such as you will see right below. People from foreign countries and people with obscure letterhead should not assume I am willing to decipher countries or addresses. Delivery is only via the postal service, so all you US government agencies should avoid wasting my tax dollars on Federal Express. That should not be too hard, but I am certain that people will botch it up. You may request more detailed information by writing to me. Current UNIX|STAT users should not bother. The packages are almost identical. Okay, here is what I want your addresses to look like. Non-conformity will cost you at least a week, maybe a month of extra delivery time. Gary Perlman School of Information Technology Wang Institute of Graduate Studies Tyngsboro, MA 01879 USA UNIX|STAT 5.1 on MSDOS Sunday, 3 November 1985 The MSDOS distribution of UNIX|STAT should run on any MSDOS system. The main requirement is that there is enough memory to hold the largest programs: 96 Kbytes. Many programs allocate memory as it is needed, so the size of problems that can be analyzed may depend on the amount of memory available. Diskette Contents TRANSFORM (conditional extractions and transformations) abut formatted printing of corresponding file lines colex column/field extraction dm data manipulation, conditional transformations maketrix format a file into a matrix type file perm randomly permute lines repeat repeat a string or file reverse reverse lines, fields, characters in lines series generate a series of numbers transpose transpose matrix type file of strings, numbers validata validate, report columnar file for consistency ANALYSIS (summary/inferential statistics, simple graphics) anova multi-factor analysis of variance desc describing a single data distribution oneway one way analysis of variance or t-test pair paired data points analysis and plots regress multivariate linear regression and correlation stats print summary statistics ts time series analysis MATH PSYCH (mathematical utility and psychological models) calc algebraic formula calculator with variables critf probability to F-ratio conversion dataplot plot paired data dm data manipulation, conditional transformations dprime compute d' and beta for signal detection data perm randomly permute lines pof F-ratio to probability conversion function series generate a series of numbers vincent vincentizing of data from files DISCLAIMER SECTION: UNIX is a trademark of Bell Telephone Laboratories, Inc. MSDOS is a trademark of MicroSoft Corporation. IBM is a trademark of International Business Machines ... and so on UNIX|STAT is not a product of any company or organization UNIX|STAT is public domain software, but it may not be copied for material gain. -- Gary Perlman Wang Institute Tyngsboro, MA 01879 (617) 649-9731 UUCP: decvax!wanginst!perlman CSNET: perlman@wanginst ------------------------------ From: "G. Bogatko" <cim1@pyuxv.uucp> Subject: Resetting the PC Cursor Date: 5 Nov 85 05:01:27 GMT When resetting the PC cursor, one thing must be kept in mind: There are two cursor sizes. One for the monochrome display, and one for the color display. The cursor for the monochrome starts with line 0 at the top and ends at 13 on the bottom. The cursor for the color starts with 0 at the top and ends with 7 at the bottom. When setting the cursor size, a check must first be made to see what kind of card is installed. Calling int 10 with AH set to 15 will return a value in AL of either 0-3 if a color card is installed, or 7 if a monochrome card is installed. If this check is not made, setting the color cursor to 5,6 for instance which is the normal color blinking underline, will set the monochrome cursor to a thin line somewhere in the middle of a character rather than the normal 12,13 setting. Trying to set a full size cursor, say 0,7 on color will obtain a half-size block at the top of the line on monochrome rather than the full block (setting 0,13) that it should be. By the way, this same kind of check should be made when doing direct screen access to make sure you are writing to the correct area. Hope this helps. G. Bogatko ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Nov 85 08:44:35 CST From: C0692%UMVMA.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA Subject: Math Text Editor Query Is anybody using the Math Text Editor by Bob Huff of Penn State University ? I would like to know if you have any remarks about it Thanks ------------------------------ Date: 7 Nov 1985 15:54-EDT From: Bharat.Dave@CAD.CS.CMU.EDU Subject: HELP: Graphics Terminal Emulator Having installed IBM Graphics Terminal Emulator on AT, I can connect to host VAX over a modem. Next, I want to use graphic commands given in the Emulator manual and so far, I haven't been able to get any results. I haven't worked on Tektronix (which is what this software emulates), have read the manual but don't understand how to incorporate the commands and losing patience fast. If anyone has used this software and could help me unravel the proper invocation, please send me mail. All I want is to encode a small Pascal program to be run on VAX and output some rectangles. Thanks. -- dave@cad.cs.cmu.edu.ARPA ------------------------------ Subject: Remote use of PCs Date: 07 Nov 85 16:07:31 PST (Thu) From: Mike Iglesias <iglesias@UCI.EDU> Several people around here have asked about using their office PCs from home. I seem to remember some discussion a while back about a good program to allow this (better than the CTTY DOS command). Could someone tell me the name of the program, manufacturer, etc? Thanks, Mike Iglesias University of California, Irvine iglesias@uci.edu ------------------------------ Subject: PC-USPCE From: Bradley Dickinson <bradley@princeton.uucp> Date: 6 Nov 85 17:11:28 GMT Some time ago there was mention of this version of SPICE. I have just tried to reach Unit Software and Consulting in Tempe, AZ with no success. Has the company gone out of business? Is PC-SICE still available? Reply my mail would be fine. Brad Dickinson ... allegra!princeton!bradley ------------------------------ From: Steven Taylor <taylor@ecsvax.uucp> Subject: Color Terminal Emulation Package Date: 5 Nov 85 16:11:32 GMT I am looking for an asynchronous terminal emulation package which would allow a PC with either the standard color board/ monitor or the enhanced board/monitor to emulate a COLOR terminal. Preferable terminal emulation is for the ADDS Viewpoint Color, but and would be better than none. Graphics emulation is not required. Price is not very important. If you are aware of such a beast, Please let me know about it. If one is found, I'll post the results. Thanks!! Steven Taylor Distributed Networking Associates 119 Doncaster Lane Charlottesville, VA 22901 (804) 979-0656 ------------------------------ From: "Todd H. Ogasawara" <ogasawar@nosc> Subject: One Finger Typing Routine??? Date: 7 Nov 85 06:40:55 GMT We have a user who, due to a severe illness, can only use a single finger to type. This means this person cannot execute ALT and CTRL sequences necessary to use many IBM PC based application programs. If you have or know of a resident program which will intercept the keyboard to allow this user to execute such sequences by, for instance, first pressing ALT, releasing it, then pressing A to execute ALT-A, please tell me about it. Thanks in advance...todd Todd Ogasawara, Computer Sciences Corp. NOSC-Hawaii Laboratories UUCPmail: {akgua,allegra,decvax,ihnp4,ucbvax}!sdcsvax!noscvax!ogasawar MILNET: OGASAWAR@NOSC [Keytronics makes a keyboard for the handicapped. -wab] ------------------------------ From: Erik Bailey <ejb@THINK.ARPA> Subject: One Finger Typing Routine Date: 8 Nov 85 21:38:37 GMT There are several programs that support this. This feature is often built into key redefinition programs, and is present in the two best known: Prokey form RoseSoft, and Superkey from Borland International. I personally reccomend SuperKey, as it not only costs less, but has a better user interface and some neat features. It is available for ~$69.95 from Borland, and can be found in many mail order outlets. Hope this helps! Erik Bailey -- 7 Oak Knoll (USENET courtesy of ihnp4!godot!ejb Arlington, MA 02174 Thinking Machines Corp. ejb@think.com.arpa (617) 643-0732 Cambridge, MA) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 85 07:50 EST From: " Roz " <RTaylor@RADC-MULTICS.ARPA> Subject: Diablo 10MB Hard Disk I am posting this for a friend who has a PC. Is the Diablo 10MB hard disc drive (which uses 5MB removable platters) compatible with/useable 'on' the PC? Can someone speak from experience? REASON: Someone in our area is offerring the above with power supply, interface data, and schematics for $250. It is being sold because it was originally bought to interface to a Commodore, but the owner never was able to make it work. My friend is not an electronics person (I can solder and use a VOM) so I offerred to translate and help if possible. ADDRESS: I am not a regular subscriber to this mailing list, so I would appreciate replies to my home address <RTaylor@radc-multics>. If this topic is currently being covered or has been covered, pointers on where to look would be greatly appreciated. If there is great response, I will gladly post to your net, if several people request it. Thanks. Roz <RTaylor@radc-multics> ------------------------------ From: Kim DeVaughn <kim@mips.uucp> Subject: MIX C Date: 7 Nov 85 07:37:05 GMT > - There is no mechanism for linking assembler programs to the C > programs. There *is* a mechanism for calling assembler programs, I talked to the MIX.C folk the other day on this very point. The person I spoke to told me that they would have a utility very soon (actually, he said "in a couple of weeks") to convert Intel/Microsoft .obj format files into something the MIX linker could handle; I *think* he said it would be able to go the other way also, but I may be mistaken on that. He suggested I call them back to check on availability in early November. The cost will be "nominal" (~$5.00, or so), I was told. I also asked if they would publish the object format they are using. He didn't seem to see the need for that (given the conversion utility), but thought that he might be able to make a 1 or 2 page description available if I really needed it (a nice, helpful attitude ... very refreshing!) He offered this information on an "undocumented feature" of MIX.C: "After searching CLIB.MIX, if there are still unresolved references, a library called LINKER.MIX will be automatically searched also." He said they also plan to come out with several other libraries in the future (and I noticed the names PLIB.MIX and BLIB.MIX in one area of linker.com that needs to be patched with debug to configure it for a hard-disk). I haven't used MIX.C too much yet ... mostly just a few experiments to verify that I had patched cc.com and linker.com correctly (they omitted some of the instructions on my copy, but have corrected that oversight by now). Anyway, I'm satisfied that I got my money's worth, and as I mentioned earlier, I like their "bedside manner" over the telephone, and their responsiveness to customer requests. I guess the only gripe I do have is having to patch the .com files to do the hard-disk configuration; an install program would be alot more "professional", and in this case, it would be a pretty simple piece of code. I really can't complain very loudly on this tho ... for $39.95, its a real bargin. Disclaimer: I have no connection with MIX Software Inc., except as a satisfied customer. /kim -- UUCP: {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!decwrl!mips!kim DDD: 415-960-1200 USPS: MIPS Computer Systems Inc, 1330 Charleston Rd, Mt View, CA 94043 ------------------------------ Date: Fri 8 Nov 85 09:55:09-EST From: Bill Catchings <OC.WBC3@CU20B.COLUMBIA.EDU> Subject: LARGE Scale Programming I am presently working on a project to port a program from UNIX to the AT. This program is written in C and is comprised of over 1000 source modules. The final executable file is about 1Meg in size. By using the overlay capabilities of PLink86 I managed to get it all working. The problem now is how to evaluate performance. I need to have some sort of histogramming facility to tell me where the program is spending its time. The overlays are not the real problem as I can build a smaller executable without resorting to overlays that will exhibit the same performance characteristics. What do software developers out there (for instance at Lotus and Microsoft) use to evaluate performance? I can and will rewrite some of the C code in assembler to speed things up, I just need to know where the pigs are in the program. Also does any one know of any products that allow programs to access different data formats, such as SYLK, DIF and 1-2-3? I already know about the Lattice dBC dBase II and III product. Thank you for your help. -Bill Catchings Foundation Computer Systems ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 85 13:59:13 pst From: Ken Whaley <whaley@lbl-ux4> Subject: Japanese Wordprocessing Query Does anybody know anything about software/hardware for word processing / text editing in Japanese on the IBM PC, or where to look? Any information would be appreciated. Please reply via e-mail. Thanks, Ken Whaley Computer Services, UNIX Project Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory whaley@lbl-ux4.ARPA ...ucbvax!lbl-csam!lbl-ux4!whaley ------------------------------ Subject: Graphics. Date: 08 Nov 85 17:58:11 EST (Fri) From: cayz@louie.udel.EDU Hello All, What I am asking for is probably easy for most of you, but since I haven't been able to work this one out with my limited resources, I ask... I wish to modify the character set on PC ( XT / AT are ok also ), most likely the upper 128. Now, the catch - I am using a monochrome adapter. I would know if it is possible to do, and if so, how to do it, or what software to get that does it. Note: I don't want to use the extended ASCII, I wish to create my own characters. Also, what does the DOS command GRAFTABL have to do with this, and why does it only work with the color-graphics adapter (other than the cga has more RAM than the mono board )? Please respond directly to me - If there is enough interest I'll summarize whatever I find to the net. Thanx in advance, James Cayz ARPA : cayz@louie.udel.edu CSNET : cayz%louie.udel.edu@csnet-relay UUCP : ...!harvard!cayz@louie.udel.edu USPS : James Cayz, Ed Tech Lab, 125 Evans Hall, University of Delaware, Newark, DE 19716 AT&T : +1 302 451-6718 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 85 23:48 EST From: Larry Afrin <lbafrin%clemson.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA> Subject: Problem with dBASE-II I wrote a small sales management "package" for a friend on his IBM PC running PC-DOS 3.10 and dBASE-II 2.4 (7/1/83). My dBASE code makes use of both PRIMARY and SECONDARY databases. The problem arises when I append records to the SECONDARY database in the special case in which dBASE needs to grab another block from DOS, i.e., all the space in the last cluster of the SECONDARY database has been used up, so to append another record, dBASE has to ask DOS to find a free cluster and append it to the cluster chain for the file, effectively extending the file's space and giving dBASE room to add in the new record. All of that works fine; no problem so far. However, no matter how I terminate use of the SECONDARY database (SELECT SECONDARY followed by a USE some-other-database or just a simple USE; or even just CLEAR), dBASE apparently doesn't issue a "close file" function call to DOS. You guessed it! The directory entry for the secondary database now has an incorrect file size. This becomes apparent in two ways. If I USE the secondary database, GOTO BOTTOM, and BROWSE around, what I find is that dBASE manages to find the last record in what is now the next-to-last cluster (originally the last cluster) and then *loops back* to the beginning of the database as if the very first record were actually positioned *after* the last record of the next-to-last cluster. All the records in the new last cluster are unretrievable; dBASE can't find them no matter what tricks I try in dBASE. The second way in which the error becomes apparent is when I run CHKDSK/F, which "solves" the problem by noting "Allocation error for file, size adjusted" on the secondary database file and promptly updating the file size to the correct value, which would have been originally put there by DOS if dBASE had properly closed the file. dBASE apparently handles extension and closing of the PRIMARY database just fine. If it matters (and I don't think it does), the system has 320K and a Percom 10MB drive (controlled by an installable device driver) installed as drive C. The database files are kept on the Percom. I have never had any other file space allocation problems on the Percom. My gut feeling is that the same problem would occur if the files in question were on diskette. As I've said, it seems like dBASE is failing to properly close the SECONDARY file. If you have noticed this problem (or better yet, have a fix for it), I would appreciate your sending me a message detailing what you know about it. If you need more information, please let me know. Thanks in advance... -- Larry Afrin Dept. of Computer Science Clemson University ================================ Please send replies, if any, to: lbafrin@clemson if you're on CSNet lbafrin.clemson@csnet-Relay if you're on ARPANet any reasonable-looking string with if you're on any other net "lbafrin" and "clemson" in it ------------------------------ Date: 30 Oct 85 08:38:12 GMT From: John Nagle <hao!hplabs!fortune!wdl1!jbn@seismo.CSS.GOV> Subject: TCP/IP and FTP for MS-DOS? Network Research Corporation's Fusion package supports IP, TCP, FTP, and TELNET on a PC using a 3COM Ethernet board. Only user side support is provided; there is no server support, so one normally uses this package to talk to a larger machine, not between PCs. TCP is supported at about the same quality level as 4.2BSD (not 4.3), FTP seems OK, TELNET doesn't do local echo right. Performance is about 10K bytes/sec on good days for FTP. The latest release has improved documentation and installation tools; it doesn't take a guru to install, unlike the previous release. Price about $795, 3COM card extra. John Nagle [We have Fusion here at ISI as well and are using the new 3Comm board witn onboard processor and memory. I encourage comments and discussion of technical details of this IP/TCP on this mailing list. Many people have criticized this package because it doesn't solve all their problems "out of the box". I can confirm the FTP is fine and the Telnet sucks, but we bought the package because it is far more flexible than the MIT Package. The Fusion package provides BSD 4.2 compatible calls to network routines all the way from raw ethernet I/O to full IP/TCP connections. These calls are accessible as an object library for Lattice C. The package is really intended for people (like myself) who are doing applications on top of IP/TCP. There is a great deal of room for improvement in the package, but I hate to see them get bad wrapped because it doesn't run a great telnet. I'll admit it is real stupid from a marketing point of view that Network Research can't manage to ship a decent telnet along with with their product, but there are lots more technical details to discuss and code to share. Network research is the only company I know of which supports 3Comm's new "505" card with on board processor and memory. This really picks up the speed of a local ethernet FTP. I will have to try a benchmark with our 8600 as the FTP is completely vax limited. -wab] ------------------------------ Date: 7 Nov 85 06:14:27 GMT From: John Nagle <hao!hplabs!fortune!wdl1!jbn@seismo.CSS.GOV> Subject: How and Why to Build an Echo Host How to Build an Echo Host, and Why One useful device for the network software implementor working without access to a big network is an echo host. An echo host (in the IP world) receives datagrams, interchanges the source and destination IP addresses, recomputes the IP checksum, and sends them out again. This is a useful device to have around. It's a mirror. If you try to make a connection to it, you end up with a connection to yourself. You can exercise protocols with only one copy of your development system yet actually generate traffic over the network hardware. Especially useful are echo hosts that introduce errors and delays. With these, one can find out if your transport protocol really works. There are several echo hosts on the ARPANET; they all have names with "ECHO" in them. You can TELNET or FTP to them, but you end up connected back to yourself. Some of them are far away, and allow testing over satellite links. Some fragment IP datagrams. Some have limited bandwidth. These are good for exercising an implementation. It is left as an exercise to the reader to implement echo host software for the IBM PC, starting from the MIT package. Such a device would be excellent for testing out TCP implementations to make sure that the hard cases really work, especially if error insertion (change one bit in every Nth packet), delay (hold all packets N seconds before returning), and congestion (if more than N packets are in the delay queue, send back a Source Quench and/or drop one) are provided. John Nagle [Lets see lots more IP/TCP stuff for the PC! -wab] ------------------------------ Date: 9 Nov 1985 1648-EST From: LISKOV at MIT-XX.ARPA Subject: V20 Test Results I have repeated the benchmark submitted by Dave Smereski on an IBM-PC with and without a V20. Here are my results using Turbo 3.01A along with Dave's original results for comparison: IBM-PC IBM-PC Xerox 6065 Xerox 6065 8088 V20 8086 V30 String Test: 50.9890 28.6813 32.3077 17.2527 seconds. Integer Test: 60.7143 47.0879 31.8132 20.7692 seconds. Reals Test with 8087: 12.9121 12.6923 ----- ----- Reals Test w/o 8087: 48.7912 46.5275 22.9121 21.9231 seconds. Sieve Test: 30.1648 29.3956 15.6593 13.7912 seconds. The IBM-PC with the V20 is the older model with 64 K on the motherboard, but I don't think that matters. The V20 is an 8mhz ceramic part. I first tried a 5 MHz V20 but some programs did not run (Night Mission Pinball, some BASICA programs). Perhaps that 5MHZ part was defective as there are 5 MHz V20s working in PCs at work. So far the V20 works on everything and I am no longer getting parity check errors on my JRAM2 card that I occassionally got with the 8088. Nate ------------------------------ From: jabusch@uiucdcsb.cs.uiuc.edu Subject: WORDSTAR Files to WORD PERFECT? Date: 6 Nov 85 19:53:00 GMT Wordperfect files have soft returns at the end of each line. I don't believe that Wordstar uses carriage returns in its paragraphs. The soft returns that Wordperfect uses are codes it knows, but are unimportant. All you need to do is to ensure that no carriage returns or linefeeds are in the paragraphs, so that they would look like long text lines. Wordperfect should then do its automatic hyphenation and margin setting when you load the file. Also, Wordperfect does not use the high bits of characters, as Wordstar does, so that stripping is necessary. ------------------------------ From: Erik Bailey <ejb@THINK.ARPA> Subject: COMPAQ DeskPro Speed Switch (solution!) Date: 9 Nov 85 17:16:30 GMT Well, response from my (ancient) plea for DeskPro software speed switching has finally picked up (2 whole msgs!). Anyway, a couple days ago this appeared in my mailbox. I immediately tried it, and found that it worked. I wanted to find out HOW it worked, so I fired up PFIXPLUS (symbolic debugger), and traced the code through. But, not knowing a thing about 8086 ASM, I was unable to extract the relavent part of MODE.COM to do the switch. Can anyone do this? Unfortunately I cannot post ASM to MODE, as (I assume) it is copyrighted by Compaq. Well, here is the msg, and THANKS to Fred McClimans (?) for this bit of undocumented info. --Erik Date: 7 Nov 85 10:52 EST From: McClimans@DDN2.ARPA Subject: Compaq MODE command To: ejb@think.com After putting in some time last night on the Compaq dilemma, I came up with this: MODE SPEED=<FAST/COMMON> I don't know if you already hit on this (it isn't in the Compaq doc's), but it is interesting none the less. The next step is to break it down. - Fred Erik Bailey -- 7 Oak Knoll (USENET courtesy of ihnp4!godot!ejb Arlington, MA 02174 Thinking Machines Corp. ejb@think.com.arpa (617) 643-0732 Cambridge, MA) ------------------------------ From: faisal@smu Subject: How Does SideKick Work? Date: 29 Oct 85 17:49:00 GMT SideKick installs in the timer interrupt. Here is the basic algorithm: at every timer tick do { execute the orignal timer tick interrupt; if (the keybaord status word indicates that Ctl and Alt are held down) if ((the system is stable)&&(sk is not currently active)) enter sidekick else beep; } Once sidekick has been entered, I believe the standard keyboard interrupts are used. Off the track but indirectly related: One of the things you have to watch out for when running a resident prog., which alters the display, and SK is this sequence: 1) bring up SK 2) bring up second program which rewrites screen 3) close SK 4) close 2nd prog. 5) bring up SK. Surprise!!! When SK was closed at step 3, it saved the display contents (which were generated at step 2), and now it redisplays this stuff because it thinks it is the SK window. Faisal @ SMU ------------------------------ Date: 11 Nov 85 13:08:28 PST (Monday) From: Eldridge.ES@Xerox.ARPA Subject: Sidekick Version 1.5 I just upgraded to Sidekick version 1.5 and I highly recommend that everyone does. There are several new features that make it worth the $25-$30. The new Sidekick almost always pops up when summoned. The old version was somewhat reluctant and would often give the sad "wheeeeoooop" indicating it could not pop-up; the new version seldom complains. The notepad has been improved. Word-wrap is now available. The biggest feature added to the notepad is the ability to export data as well as import it. This feature alone makes it worth the upgrade. The new version does the right thing when you call it while the screen is in high-res graphics mode. It switches the screen to character mode and then restores the screen mode when you exit Sidekick. If you did not like the "hot keys" defined by Sidekick, you can change them now. The expanded installation program lets you customize Sidekick to your individual taste. One of the "key" features of version 1.5 is that it works with SuperKey, the Borland keyboard enhancer. Using keyboard macros quickly becomes habit-forming; and being able to call Sidekick from a macro is positively addicting. I picked up the copy-protected version of SideKick at Egghead Software for $30. You may be able to get it a little cheaper from a mail-order house. (I recommend PC Connection). If you have SideKick version 1.1 then you can upgrade to version 1.5 by returning the original disk to Borland along with $19.95 plus $5 for shipping and handling. A version that is not copy-protected is available at a higher cost. This is recommended for convenience when booting from a hard disk. George (Eldridge.es@Xerox.ARPA) ------------------------------ Date: 11 Nov 1985 05:45-EST Subject: ASMGEN From: ABN.ISCAMS@USC-ISID.ARPA NetLandians, (2d query, but no one answered the first). ASMGEN is an 8086 disassembler, Public Domain by Jack Gersbach, for the PC. It's supposed to be able to use an external .SEQ sequential instructional file for guidance on just how to disassemble parts of the target file. ASMGEN works fine, but it will NOT accept any form of SEQ file I can invent. Has ANYONE made ASMGEN work using a .SEQ file, and could you please tell me how? Thanks in advance, David Kirschbaum Toad Hall ABN.ISCAMS@USC-ISID ------------------------------ Date: 11 Nov 1985 05:50-EST Subject: External files in Turbo Pascal From: ABN.ISCAMS@USC-ISID.ARPA NetLandians, Can anyone point me at some sample code that will illustrate how Turbo Pascal (MSDOS or PC Version, 2.0 or above) uses an external binary file? NOTE: NOT a regular Turbo .INC ({$I foobar.inc}) file, NOT inline assembler. The manual says that external file MUST be "relocatable" .. what does that mean to me when I write and assemble/link/EXE2BIN/whatever that external function or procedure? Sorry to ask maybe a dumb question .. but I'm not experienced in linking dissimilar languages like this. Thanks in advance, David Kirschbaum Toad Hall ABN.ISCAMS@USC-ISID ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 85 12:10 PST From: Jim Anderson <Jim-Anderson%LADC@CISL-SERVICE-MULTICS.ARPA> Subject: AT Real Time Clock Query I notice there is a bit in status register B of the AT's real time clock called "Daylight Savings Enabled". Changing the bit seems to have no effect on the time readout from the clock. Does anybody know what the purpose of this bit is? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 85 22:08:15 est From: morrell@mitre (James Morrell) Subject: DOS 3.1 Clock I am well aware of the DOS 2.1 problem regarding no roll over of date but I thought this bug had been cured in DOS 3.1. Pete Carah and Don Reynolds discussed this topic early last month but there did not seem to be any firm resolution of whether the problem exists or not in DOS 3.1, and on the AT in particular. Has anyone any additional observations on this topic? Are two calls to INT 21 a day really required as Pete suggests? Our special application AT can sit without any keyboard activity for several days waiting for input from a comm line. When it gets the input, the date must be right. The system has only been on line for a short period of time yet we seem to be having the date roll-over problem, and it is obviously very difficult to track down. By the way, the AT treats its internal battery operated clock the same way the PC treats its "third party" battery clock -- it is only read at boot time. Any answers would be much appreciated. ------------------------------ End of Info-IBMPC Digest ************************ -------