Info-IBMPC@USC-ISIB.ARPA (Info-IBMPC Digest) (01/07/86)
Info-IBMPC Digest Monday, 6 January 1985 Volume 5 : Issue 2
Today's Editor: Eliot Moore <Elmo@USC-ISIB>
Today's Topics:
Undigestification
Administravia - Index Files for INFO-IBMPC
Browse, X.PC
MASM update policy
Info re: Microosft OEM MASM Upgrades
Definicon DSI-32 Digest
Titan Technologies' Accelerator-PC
HP ThinkJet
Getting Rid of TurboLighting
Diablo 630
FAT Experts
Shipdisk
Bare Boards and Real Cheap Clones
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Date: Sat, 4 Jan 86 12:38:09 PST
From: prandt!reynolds@AMES-NAS.ARPA (Don Reynolds)
To: amelia!kvancamp@ARDC.ARPA
Subject: Undigestification
Cc: amelia!info-ibmpc@usc-isib.ARPA, reynolds@AMES-NAS.ARPA
To reply to Kenneth Van Camp and to Billy:
As a neophyte UNIX user, I've found the "pg" utility on System V and
the "more" utility on 4.2 bsd will search for a string (like the
--------) that separates the messages. I find I cannot understand
things at 9600 baud. I do use Kermit, and the Frog scrolls backwards
with Heathkit H-19 emulation under MS-DOS. It's a bit confusing
sometimes keeping PgDn, End, and Return straight.
I have not needed undigestification. I use the SAVSCR program before
I read a Digest Issue. It is easy to excerpt pertinent messages from
the screen to the PC, shear off the last space to get below 80
character lines to avoid a double-space appearance on the PC, then
edit this small file on the PC.
If I always responded to the list, and I had disk space available
(usually NOT the case), I would use PC-Write, my favorite editor, to
read the message in two or more pieces, if needed. PC-Write only
keeps less than 64 kBytes in RAM.
With direct screen writes, the human factors of paging are better than
reading a book. Putting pieces of a file into separate files is easy
with PC-Write, so each response can be written after each message,
then copied to indi-vidual files for transfer to UNIX for mailing.
But I will be watching for info on BROWSE -- sounds good.
A few comments on using Info-IBMPC for reference:
1) I find this use at least as valuable as that of a "throw-away" news-
paper. A cohort Macintosh list reader archives that list also.
2) I would like to request that readers be informed (under Adminstrivia)
whenever the INFOPC CUMULATIVE INDEX is updated.
3) Since I have much more storage available on UNIX than on this PC-XT, I
keep old issues on-line in subdirectories, by month. The UNIX utility
"grep" has helped here, with the search space restricted to only a few
files. Perhaps TOPS-20 has a context-search utility that could serve
this purpose.
Best,
Don
------------------------------
Date: 5 Jan 1986 15:23:05 PST
Subject: Index Files for INFO-IBMPC
From: Billy <BRACKENRIDGE@USC-ISIB.ARPA>
To: info-ibmpc@USC-ISIB.ARPA
We have lost our net connection to IBM. This means no more product
announcements, price lists, or kwic index of our digests. It also means
INFO-IBMPC is no longer carried on IBM's world wide net VNET. Yes the folks at
Boca have been listening for the last three years or so. Not that they respond
but they were listening.
It is now the end of the year ant time to prepare our index to info-ibmpc and
we have lost all those free cycles on those huge mainframes that used to
compile our index.
Here is the format of the file we have been calling kwic-index:
CUMULATIVE INDEX FROM INFOPC VOLUME 3, ISSUE 1 THROUGH
INFOPC VOLUME 4, ISSUE 39 APRIL 4, 1985
A/D
V3 N47 Odd Bug with A/D on PC - Help!
V3 N113 A/D boards for the PC
ACCELERATOR
V4 N23 PC Accelerator Boards Query
ACCESS
V3 N19 Accessing External STRUC in 8086 MS-DOS Assembler
V3 N33 Accessing PC-BLUE Volumes from TOPS-20
V3 N47 DOS 2.1 Floppy Access Timing (Re: DOS 2.1 Patch)
V3 N63 DOS 1.0 Random-Disk-Access Function Calls
ACCOUNTING
V3 N36 Accounting Package Query
V3 N38 Accounting Package
V3 N116 Accountant's Time Billing Program Query
It isn't exactly a kwic index, but this was prepared under some program similar
to a kwic program that runs on a 370. Does anyone out there have a 370 and
archived digests (I will send those if needed) who would like to volunteer to
make us an index of articles through 1985? I can't find such a program on the
PDP-10 and don't have the heart to write an EEL program to do it on my PC.
-------
------------------------------
Date: 4 Jan 1986 05:05-EST
Subject: Browse, X.PC
From: ABN.ISCAMS@USC-ISID.ARPA
NetLandians,
There was a recent query (Issue #1) about better instructions for Browse.
Can't help there, but I can recommend LIST60 .. full source code available
at <INFO-IBMPC> at USC-ISIB. Offers paging, file top, file bottom,
handles text wider than screen, search for selected strings, etc. Very
fast and versitile, PLUS the source code (yeay!).
Re the kind soul offering X-PC documentation since it was so big it couldn't
very well be EMailed anywhere .. if you're on the ARPAnet, the wizards at
DEC-MARLBORO have kindly stashed the full documentation (X-PC.DQC) in the
disk CPM:. Very nice document indeed, but still don't know of any code
anywhere implementing it.
Regards,
David Kirschbaum
Toad Hall
ABN.ISCAMS@USC-ISID.ARPA
------------------------------
From: Gordon Letwin <gordonl@microsoft.uucp>
Subject: MASM update policy
Date: 3 Jan 86 17:47:37 GMT
First, a meta-comment on USENET and flamers:
Step 1: Someone submits an article to USENET. Stipulate, from an
omniscient perspective, that the article is factual and accurate.
Step 2: The readers of the articles fall into three general categories:
a) those who know the subject. They see that the article is
correct and don't say anything.
b) those who don't know the subject, and know that they don't.
They figure that they have nothing to offer and don't say
anything.
c) people who are not only ignorant, but they don't
realize their own ignorance. These folks flame. The flames
are inaccurate and/or illogical.
Step 3: The original submittor has two options, he can ignore the flames,
or he can reply. Replying is a problem, though, because the flames
that he's trying to rebut combine a lack of grasp of the
material with an inability to argue logically.
Given this experience, it makes the most sense for the originator to never
originate in the first place. This algorithm is wide spread, and is
at the root of the occasionally-aired complaint, "why doesn't Microsoft
say something about this issue?"
Now, given that I am too naive to stop beating a dead horse,
I'll make my last pass at it:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I discussed the issue of buying an item from an OEM, and the responsibilty
to the end buyer on the part of companies that supplied parts to that
OEM. I claimed that although GM built the climate control system in
my car, I bought the car from AUDI and GM has no responsibility towards
me. It is up to AUDI to support me and propigate any upgrades that
GM invents and makes available to AUDI.
> This is a specious analogy, at best. You are comparing apples and oranges.
> If you want to use a more accurate analogy, let's talk about the tires that
> came on your Audi. OK, you find a tire that's bad due to a design defect;
> your Audi dealer won't take the responsibility for it. If you have a really
> good dealer, he may "take care of you", but in the majority of cases, he'll
> send you to the tire manufacturer for an adjustment.
WRONG WRONG WRONG. I guess that Kim hasn't ever bought a car, or
maybe he's found a car company that has poor policies. I've bought
three new cars from three different companies, and in eac case the CAR
MANUFACTURER (via his dealer) IS SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TIRE
WARRENTY. The manufacturer expresses the warrantee, I don't have the
foggiest what the tire maker's warrantee policy is; I just know what
AUDI's warrantee is. AUDI sold me the tire, and AUDI warrents it.
Only if I go out and buy a tire from Goodyear or some third party does
Goodyear's warrantee become an issue.
This isn't because he's a "good dealer" and being a pal, its spelled out
in black and white in my warrantee documentation.
> Or let's say that fancy AM-FM-Cassette player in your Audi breaks. Audi won't
> fix it for you. They may pull it out of the car, but then it goes over to the
> people who designed and manufactured it. This same procedure applies to most
> major assemblies in the auto-parts industry, be it domestic or foreign. (Major
> assemblies means things like alternators, carburetors, fuel-injection units,
> starters, radios, tires, etc.)
Again, Kim speaks from ignorance. In fact, my AM-FM-
Cassette player in my AUDI did break - it broke about 2 weeks ago.
Audi is responsible for fixing it, and they did just that. They took
it out of the dash and swapped it for another. I was even offered a
loaner car for the 30 minutes that it took. I'm aware that a typical
Japanese radio warrantee is for 1 year - but I have a three year warrantee,
because my AUDI is warrented, in toto, for three years. My warrantee is,
of course, with AUDI and not with the Japanese company.
Perhaps Kim is saying that the Audi dealer doesn't employ an EE to fix
it, but will in turn send it back to Japan, where it was made. This
may be true, but this is just a detail. (Actually, they will send it
to an AUDI regional center which employs or contacts out to said EE.)
Its AUDI's responsibiltiy to fix it, and they did, by swapping it.
They could have fullfilled their responsibility by employing a EE, or
by black magic, for all I care. They sold me the radio, and they are
responsible under the warrantee they offered. After they fixed my
radio, they can play with their defective stock in any way they
choose.
> It should also be noted that if the climate control in your Audi has design
> defects in it, and Audi has to replace them in all their cars, Audi will most
> certainly seek legal recourse against GM for the cost, etc. of such replace-
> ment ... they pay even seek punitive damages. But all this would be in the
> contracts between Audi and GM, and invisible to the end-user, just as any
> agreement between Microsoft and Fujitsu is "invisible" to a user.
A ray of light - this is exactly my point. You betcha that Fujitsu
has a support and update agreement with Microsoft - and you betcha
that we live up to this agreement in every way. If Fujitsu doesn't
listen to your complaints, or doesn't offer you the update, then thats
their failing. We listen to them and update them, pronto.
> It's rather strange then, that Fujitsu doesn't have the source-code for
> "their" assembler. They *cannot* fix my problem, even if they wanted to.
No, this isn't strange at all. They can fix your problem if they want
to, and they do it in the way provided under their contract with Microsoft.
That contract allows them to report bugs and requires us to fix them.
------------------------------
From: Sandra Jacobson <sandraj@microsoft.uucp>
Subject: Info re: Microosft OEM MASM Upgrades
Date: 3 Jan 86 18:05:53 GMT
To: info-ibmpc@usc-isib.ARPA
Users of a Microsoft OEM'ed Macro Assembler/MASM (with (C) Microsoft on it)
can now to update to the latest version of the Microsoft Macro
Assembler v 4.00. For details, contact Microsoft at (800) 426-9400.
In Washington State and Alaska call (206)828-8088. In Canada call (800)
387-6616.
System Requirements: MS-DOS 2.0 or later and Double Sided/Double Density
5-/14 diskette format
This applies to copies of MASM that were purchased from OEMs only. Copies
of MASM that were purchased from Microsoft are supported and updated under
the existing agreements.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 86 21:57:17 PST
From: Info-IBMPC
Subject: Definicon DSI-32 Digest
Anyone interested in participating in a digest/forum for
the Definicon DSI-32 is requested to contact
Mike Blackwell <ihnpr!aicchi!mdb@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
------------------------------
Date: Monday, 6 January 1986 18:42:18 EST
From: Joe.Newcomer@a.sei.cmu.edu
To: info-ibmpc@usc-isib.arpa
Subject: Titan Technologies' Accelerator-PC
We recently tried out the Titan Technologies' "Accelerator-PC" board in
our PC and XT. This board promises "Performance improvements from 2.5
to 4x a PC". Norton utilities shows a factor of 1.8 improvement.
Measured performance of two benchmarks, a largely compute bound one gave
a factor of 1.5 and an I/O bound one gave a factor of 1.2. The board is
8086 based with onboard 16-bit memory path. It claims to be able to
load ROM code (including the Basic interpreter) into RAM to get faster
speed, but our attempt to do this following instructions on the /XT (which
are different than the PC) resulted in an unbootable system with disk
controller errors (this is not the same system that experienced FAT
troubles referred to in another message). At the $500 special-price-until-
December-31 it isn't much of a bargain. The company offered a 15-day free
trial, which is why I tried it, but one has gone back and the other will
tomorrow.
Anyone who knows of good AT-class accelerator cards that are AT-compatible:
we're in the market for two of them.
------------------------------
From: "Todd H. Ogasawara" <ogasawar@nosc>
Subject: HP ThinkJet
Date: 4 Jan 86 08:06:46 GMT
I just placed an order for an HP ThinkJet. The reason I bought it was
to have a quiet printer to work with late at night. Most of my software
has drivers for the ThinkJet. However, two questions came to mind tonight.
[1] I did not see any direct support of the ThinkJet by the STSC APL*PLUS/PC.
The User's Guide mentions only Epson support for printing APL
characters. Does anyone know if APL*PLUS/PC supports the ThinkJet?
I'd hate to make the long distance call to the east coast from
Hawaii to get a yes or no answer. Alternatively,....
[2] The mini-review of the HP ThinkJet in the PC Magazine 1984 (not 85)
printer review issue mentions that the ThinkJet has a full Epson
emulation mode. Yet, the review of the ThinkJet in the Jan85 BYTE
review says that the ThinkJet CANNOT emulate the Epson printers.
Can someone please tell me which review is correct?
I plan on keeping my aging but reliable Epson MX-80 and so will not suffer
too much if APL*PLUS/PC cannot dump APL chars to the ThinkJet. However, if
the ThinkJet can emulate the Epson, it will save me a bit of cable
switching.
Thanks in advance for any information you can share with me...todd
Todd Ogasawara, Computer Sciences Corp.
NOSC-Hawaii Laboratories
UUCPmail: {akgua,allegra,decvax,ihnp4,ucbvax}!sdcsvax!noscvax!ogasawar
MILNET: OGASAWAR@NOSC
*Note. ThinkJet is probably a proprietary term registered by Hewlett-Packard
Hope this satisfies the legal types out there :-)
[The Think Jet uses the same cable as the Epson, but does not allow down
loadable characters like the Epson. As a rule of thumb most HP products are
compatible with nothing else. The Thinkjet is by HP standards compatible with
the Epson in that some of Epson codes are recognised. The MODE LPT1:132
command from DOS works in that it sets the thinkjet into 132 column mode.
The thinket has a bit mapped graphics mode but I don't know if it is compatible
with the Epson. -wab]
------------------------------
Date: 04 Jan 86 15:46:00 EST
From: DAVE THOMAS <DAVE_THOMAS%CARLETON.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Getting Rid of TurboLighting
Does anyone know how I can get rid of Turbo Lighting once it has
grabbed my machine? I've tried restoring all the vectors and performing
an exit, but the DOS seems to keeo 64 bytes for the environment? Thanks
in advance for the help.
Dave Thomas
F95THOMP@Carleton.bitnet
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Date: 6 Jan 86 12:54:56 PST (Monday)
Subject: Diablo 630
From: Philip M. Burton <burton.osbunorth@Xerox.ARPA>
I have a Diablo 630 with a serial interface, connected with a null
modem-type cable, with a transfer rate of 9600 baud. The 630 has a
limited buffer, 768 bytes, and when it fills up, or if I take the
printer off-line, the hardware handshaking pauses output to the printer.
I know that all works fine, because I never experience a printer
overrun.
However, if my Diablo is turned off, output goes to the printer anyway.
(Faster, too, since handshaking never pauses the output.) This is
frustrating, particularly in comparison with parallel interface
printers, which cause an error message to appear if the printer is
either offline or not turned on.
One more point. I have an AT, which has a different serial port
controller than a PC or XT.
Any suggestions? Please reply to me directly with comments of the,
"Tell me your pin configuration," or "I use XON-XOFF because .... "
variety. I'm open to suggestions, I can rewire the null modem cable
since I built it myself, and finally, I'll post to the net the real,
true answer that solves my problems.
Phil Burton
Xerox Corp.
415 496 6514
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Date: Monday, 6 January 1986 18:36:38 EST
From: Joe.Newcomer@a.sei.cmu.edu
To: info-ibmpc@usc-isib.arpa
Subject: FAT Experts
No, I don't need to thin down...but one of our PCs is getting scrambled
FAT entries. A few weeks ago this happened, and I thought I had possibly
screwed up the computation for the patch to reduce cluster size, so I
reformatted the disk, and being under some time pressure just left the
original values (I checked...they were not my patched values) in place.
We are running a 16MB disk. I just got a call today that there were FAT
errors and chkdsk reveals about 5 crosslinked files (.EXE and .COM files
which had previously been fine!). No strange or unusual programs run on
this straight-PC that don't run at least as heavily on our XT or AT.
Two sets of FAT damage within a month make me suspicious. DOS 3.1.
References to grubby details beyond the tech ref manual level would help.
Suggestions for detection or correction of damage welcome, but I'd rather
go after the root cause.
joe
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Date: 6 Jan 86 11:24:57 PST (Monday)
From: Colvin.PA@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Shipdisk
Several people have made comments in the past few disgests about running
shipdisk at the end of their day before shutting off the machine. This
is not necessary on a daily basis! Shipdisk's original purpose was to
park the heads before transporting ("shipping") the machine. When a
machine is going to be left resting on a desk and is not going to be
moved, it is not necessary to park the heads, because very little can
happen to the hard disk while it is sitting there. Running shipdisk the
before going home at night just increases your boot time in the morning.
-- Craig Colvin
(Colvin.pa@Xerox.ARPA)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 86 21:24 EST
From: "David S. Bakin" <Bakin@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>
Subject: Bare Boards and Real Cheap Clones
My computer shopper magazine is always filled with ads for real cheap
(<$1000) XT clones and lots of different bare boards (MPC, XTC, etc
etc etc). I haven't seen them discussed in this digest -- I'd love to
hear from people who have used either cheap clones (questions about
compatibility and reliability are foremost) or built them from bare or
stuffed motherboards.
THANKS!!!! -- Dave Bakin (Bakin -at mit-multics (arpa))
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End of Info-IBMPC Digest
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