[mod.protocols] Submission for mod-protocols

gert@seismo.CSS.GOV@uvabick.UUCP (02/18/87)

Path: uvabick!gert
From: gert@uvabick.UUCP (Gert Hulstein)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans,mod.protocols
Subject: Courier Remote Procedure Calls
Keywords: Courier Networks
Message-ID: <116@uvabick.UUCP>
Date: 17 Feb 87 23:15:30 GMT
Lines: 9


Hi,

Is there any information available on the courier remote procedure calls ?
If so, where can I get it ?
Also, what implementations of courier do exist ?

Gert Hulstein, Amsterdam University, The Netherlands.
mcvax!gert@uvabick.uucp

mrs2@seismo.CSS.GOV@bunny.UUCP (02/19/87)

Path: bunny!mrs2
From: mrs2@bunny.UUCP (Mark Scherfling)
Newsgroups: mod.protocols
Subject: Re: Submission for mod-protocols
Keywords: Courier, Xerox, XNS
Message-ID: <927@bunny.UUCP>
Date: 19 Feb 87 15:14:51 GMT
References: <8702172315.AA00735@uvabick.UUCP>
Reply-To: mrs2@bunny.UUCP (Mark Scherfling)
Followup-To: Info on Courier
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Waltham MA
Lines: 26

The Courier Remote Procedure Call protocol (RPC) was developed by
Xerox as part of their XNS protocol suite.  Two years ago, they were
selling documentation packets which contained all the Xerox protocols
(currently published for external consumption) including the Interpress
printing protocol. Below is the contact I had in ordering these manuals:
   Dennis Frahmann
   Manager, Protocols Marketing
   Xerox Corp.
   Office Systems Division
   2100 Geng Rd.
   Palo Alto, California  94303

I am unsure of any commercial implementation of Courier.  Network Research
Corp.'s Fusion products may have implemented Courier, but I'm not sure.  XNS
has lost favor among the network integrators due to the need to communicate with
government agencies (running TCP/IP), the overwheming availability of TCP/IP in 
Berkeley Unix implementations, and the incomplete (read: non existence) of
common applications for XNS. 
Its too bad.  Courier and Clearinghouse were some of the finest higher level
protocols to exist when they were published. Bill Joy of Sun Microsystems liked
them so much, he rewrote them for TCP/IP and called them RPC and YellowPages,
respectfully. Oh well, protocols marchs forward.

-- Mark Scherfling
   GTE Labs

news@seismo.CSS.GOV@sun.UUCP (02/20/87)

Path: sun!gorodish!guy
From: guy%gorodish@Sun.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: mod.protocols
Subject: Re: Submission for mod-protocols
Message-ID: <13682@sun.uucp>
Date: 20 Feb 87 05:35:58 GMT
References: <8702191514.AA20193@bunny.UUCP>
Sender: news@sun.uucp
Reply-To: guy@sun.UUCP (Guy Harris)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mountain View
Lines: 40

>Courier and Clearinghouse were some of the finest higher level
>protocols to exist when they were published. Bill Joy of Sun Microsystems
>liked them so much, he rewrote them for TCP/IP and called them RPC and
>YellowPages, respectfully.

Well, aside from the fact that:

	1) Bill didn't write them single-handedly (for example,
	the manager of the NFS group here, and one of the developers
	of Sun RPC and RPC-based services, is Bob Lyon - yes, the same
	Bob Lyon listed as one of the authors of the clearinghouse at
	the end of Oppen and Dalal's TOOIS paper).

	2) They weren't "rewritten for TCP/IP"; Sun RPC has an
	object-oriented interface to the underlying transport protocol
	(you provide an interface module to the transport in question -
	which need not be a network protocol, but could be
	something like shared memory - that provides a certain set of
	operations) and has been put on top of, e.g., the ISO connectionless
	transport protocol (and could probably be put on top of, e.g.,
	SPP).  Also, Courier performs the functions of RPC and XDR
	combined, not just RPC.

	3) The Yellow Pages is a lower-level remote database access
	protocol than Clearinghouse.  The ranges of the mappings it
	performs consist of uninterpreted data, not property lists.
	It does not support queries like Clearinghouse's
	"LookupGeneric", because it doesn't interpret those data; you
	can look up something by name, or you can get every entry in
	a map and do whatever kind of lookup you want, but you can't
	say "give me all the objects that match this wildcarded name
	and that have thus-and-such a property."  It also has no
	mechanism for updating mappings.

I guess this isn't *too* far off (other than the fact that the proper
term is "respectively", not "respectfully").

If you only have a few widely-spaced data points, be careful when
attempting interpolation; it looks pretty silly when you try to use
linear interpolation on data points taken from a sine wave....

jqj@GVAX.CS.CORNELL.EDU.UUCP (02/21/87)

A request for information on Xerox Courier and publicly available
implementations appeared recently on this news group.

It should first be noted that very few compatible implementations of Courier
and the Xerox applications protocols that use it exist.  Most of the Xerox
implementations (for XDE, ViewPoint, Cedar, and Interlisp) interoperate, but
even there there are some incompatibilities.  3Com has an implementation
which interoperates at the Courier level, but not at the applications level;
for example, they use different Clearinghouse properties.  Last I checked,
Fusion's XNS protocol suite was Xerox-compatible at the SPP level but not at
the Courier level.

One non-commercial, but publicly available, implementation of the Courier
protocols is the Cornell xnscourier suite distributed as part of the
"user contributed" software for 4.3BSD.  It is designed to interoperate with
Xerox implementations, especially with the XDE implementation.

The suite includes a stub compiler which takes descriptions in the
Courier language and generates C client and server stubs, a fairly
large runtime library for common dataconversion and applications
problems (e.g. almost all Xerox uses of Courier require dynamic binding
to a network address based on a Clearinghouse name, so the library
includes routines that find a Clearinghouse, use it to translate from a
string to network address, generate the appropriate authentication,
etc.).  Also, the library includes sample applications using some of
the public Xerox protocols layered on Courier:  remote terminal
emulation client and server (GAP protocol), file transfer client
(Filing protocol; a file transfer server is coming soon), printing
client so you can send your Interpress masters to a Xerox printer, and
so on.

The package runs on 4.3BSD on VAXes and UTX 2.0 on Goulds.  I have not
tested it on SUNs, but believe that it would run there with little
problem (requiring currently undistributed SUN XNS kernel support).
For further information on the UNIX Courier package, send me mail.

	jqj@systems.cs.cornell.edu
	jqj@cornell.arpa
	cornell!jqj
	jqj@crnlcs.bitnet

alan@COLUMBIA.EDU.UUCP (02/24/87)

Path: columbia!alan
From: alan@columbia.UUCP (Alan Crosswell)
Newsgroups: mod.protocols,mod.computers.vax
Subject: Need help with LAN Bridges
Message-ID: <4373@columbia.UUCP>
Date: 23 Feb 87 22:42:25 GMT
Reply-To: alan@columbia.edu (Alan Crosswell)
Organization: Columbia University CS Department
Lines: 34


We have several LAN Bridges interconnecting departmental ethernets
to our campus "backbone."  We have recently noticed that a lot of
traffic that should be filtered by the LAN Bridge is not being filtered;
packets between a host on the backbone and another department are showing
up on a second department's network.  These are not broadcasts,  they
are things like tcp/telnet and tcp/ftp.

Unfortunately,  we do not have a VMS system or RBMS so I can't dump
out the LAN Bridge's tables to see if that will provide any clueas
to what it going on.  My understanding was that the factory default
would be to do all the right filtering so we wouldn't need RBMS for
day-to-day stuff -- only for unusual situations.....

I have also noticed the LAN Bridge for our department is transmitting
a "LAN Bridge protocol" packet about once a second onto the departmental
network.

The LAN Bridge installation manual (the only documentation of the thing
I have) says that the Bridges talk to each other when they boot so that
they can see if there are any loops.  Are they saying anything else to
each other and can they possibly get confused if, for instance, some of
them have the "A" port plugged into the backbone while others are plugged
in with the "B" port?

Any help and/or explanations of how LAN Bridges work or what might be
wrong would be greatly appreciated!  One of our departmental networks
that just got connected to the backbone may have to disconnect -- the
extra noise is wiping out their diskless SUN performance.

Alan Crosswell
Columbia University
alan@columbia.edu
(212) 280-3754

larry@pdn.UUCP.UUCP (03/02/87)

Path: pdn!larry
From: larry@pdn.UUCP (Larry Swift)
Newsgroups: mod.protocols
Subject: Re: OSI references & flow control
Message-ID: <665@pdn.UUCP>
Date: 2 Mar 87 16:50:14 GMT
Organization: Paradyne Corporation, Largo, Florida
Lines: 30


(In response to an email request for OSI reference material)
There's a good collection of articles and original work by Stallings, 
"Computer Communications: Architectures, Protocols, and Standards", IEEE
Computer Society Press, 1985.  (He's from MIT also, I believe.)  The OSI
Ref. Model (ISO is 7498) itself is available from the American National 
Standards Institute.  A good seminar (and the material that goes with it,
if one can find it without taking the seminar) is available from Omnicom,
Inc, Vienna, Va.  Omnicom's executive director, Hal Folts, has also
published "A Tutorial on the OSI Reference Model", 1982, which is probably
available from Omnicom.  Other compendiums are readily available in works
such as Auerbach and Datapro's Data Communications.  (I have no affiliation
with any of these people or organizations.)  As I said, there are many others.

In locating these references for you, I discover that I may be somewhat out
of date in citing OSI's Layer five (Session Control) as that "where the data 
path is finally narrowed to a single user", although I suppose it may still
be arguable.  If sessions and transport connections are indeed tied 
together in one-for-one relationships, then it would seem that Layer 4
is the upper limit of flow control mechanisms.  (This seems to me to be in
conflict with the transport layer's responsiblity for cost-effective 
conections.)


--------------------------------
Larry Swift
UUCP: {ihnp4,gatech,cbosgd}!akgua!usfvax2!pdn!larry
Snail mail: LF-207, Paradyne Corp., 8550 Ulmerton Road, Largo, FL, 33541
Phone: (813) 530-8605

news@seismo.CSS.GOV@hafro.UUCP (03/03/87)

Path: hafro!gunnar
From: gunnar@hafro.UUCP (Gunnar Stefansson)
Newsgroups: mod.protocols
Subject: X.25 software for Unix ?
Message-ID: <334@hafro.UUCP>
Date: 2 Mar 87 21:38:55 GMT
Reply-To: gunnar@hafro.UUCP (Gunnar Stefansson)
Distribution: world
Organization: Marine Research Institute, Reykjavik
Lines: 17


Does anyone know of software for handling the X.25 protocol on Unix
machines ?

In particular, we do not want to have to connect our machines to a
PAD with n serial ports, which will then force us to use up n serial
ports on the computer. Rather, the ports should be implemented in
software as is done on several other systems, with just one physical
connection going out of the machine, but several logical ones.

We would be most interested in specific solutions for the HP 9000
series, but general information on solutions under Unix will also be
appreciated.

Thanks,

Gunnar

larry@pdn.UUCP.UUCP (03/04/87)

Path: pdn!larry
From: larry@pdn.UUCP (Larry Swift)
Newsgroups: mod.protocols
Subject: Re: OSI references and flow control
Keywords: OSI flow control
Message-ID: <669@pdn.UUCP>
Date: 4 Mar 87 14:51:45 GMT
Organization: Paradyne Corporation, Largo, Florida
Lines: 40


(In reply to an email discussion)
>specific references to how to do FLOW CONTROL in the OSI model.  

Peer-to-peer flow control, as you have indicated, is much discussed in 
OSI circles.  I don't know of any references addressing flow control
at the service interface, however (see below).  If I find any, I'll 
let you know.

>I suspect whoever defined the standard do not know how well their stuff works
>in the real network.

You might have a good point, there!

> In OSI model, each layer determines its own flow control parameter
> values.  Now assume transport layer sends lots of data (it has a large
> window size), but the net can't send that fast.  Where are data buffered?
> What problems does this cause?  (in reality, not in definition.  These
> real problems are seen everyday.)

You are referring to a resource problem in the service interface(s), which,
I agree, the Model hasn't addressed at all, as of yet.  One of the reasons, 
I'm sure, is that the problem is usually internal to the node rather
than the network (ie, the given two layers are operating in the same 
program environment).  I know from experience that this takes a rather 
sophisticated, communications-oriented operating system to resolve in a
common manner, and therefore is subject to all sorts of non-networking
requirements being imposed.  Unix, for example, is a long way from being
able to address the problems.

I suspect the OSI Model won't be upgraded to address the problems for a 
long time either, since I don't believe the upper layers are yet locatable 
in separate program environments (ie, machines).

--------------------------------
Larry Swift
UUCP: {ihnp4,gatech,cbosgd}!akgua!usfvax2!pdn!larry
Snail mail: LF-207, Paradyne Corp., 8550 Ulmerton Road, Largo, FL, 33541
Phone: (813) 530-8605

jim@seismo.CSS.GOV@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid) (03/05/87)

Path: strath-cs!jim
From: jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid)
Newsgroups: mod.protocols
Subject: Re: Submission for mod-protocols
Message-ID: <412@stracs.cs.strath.ac.uk>
Date: 5 Mar 87 20:54:36 GMT
References: <8703022138.AA29794@hafro.UUCP>
Reply-To: jim@cs.strath.ac.uk
Distribution: world
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Scotland.
Lines: 30

In article <8703022138.AA29794@hafro.UUCP> gunnar@hafro.UUCP writes:
>Does anyone know of software for handling the X.25 protocol on Unix
>machines ?

The University of British Columbia have added a CCITT socket domain to
4.[23] BSD UNIX to support an X.400 messaging system. It uses the sync.
port of a DMF32 and I understand it should also work on a Sun with one
of the RS232 ports configured for synchronous communication.

Sun also sell X.25 for their SUNlink product: it also provides socket
level communication (based on UBC code?) The SUNlink board has some
intelligence and should manage a good bit of the X.25 processing.

>We would be most interested in specific solutions for the HP 9000
>series, but general information on solutions under Unix will also be
>appreciated.

Well, in section 1m of our HP9000 manuals there is a getx25 command.
This configures getty for reverse pad ports. The entry makes reference
to a HP pad, but I don't know if this is a box or just another card
that slots into the backplane. I'd guess this offloads X.25 and triple-X
from UNIX entirely, so probably doesn't count.

		Jim

ARPA:	jim%cs.strath.ac.uk@ucl-cs.arpa, jim@cs.strath.ac.uk
UUCP:	jim@strath-cs.uucp, ...!seismo!mcvax!ukc!strath-cs!jim
JANET:	jim@uk.ac.strath.cs

"JANET domain ordering is swapped around so's there'd be some use for rev(1)!"

stephen@seismo.CSS.GOV@comp.lancs.ac.uk ("Stephen J. Muir") (03/06/87)

Path: dcl-cs!stephen
From: stephen@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Stephen J. Muir)
Newsgroups: mod.protocols
Subject: Re: X.25 for Unix 4.2bsd
Message-ID: <274@dcl-csvax.comp.lancs.ac.uk>
Date: 6 Mar 87 12:50:17 GMT
References: <8703022138.AA29794@hafro.UUCP> <455*neufeld@ean.ubc.cdn>
Reply-To: stephen@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Stephen J. Muir)
Distribution: world
Organization: Department of Computing at Lancaster University, UK.
Lines: 14

In article <455*neufeld@ean.ubc.cdn> neufeld@mcvax.UUCP (Gerald Neufeld) writes:
>We have developed X.25 for 4.2bsd Unix. The X.25 code uses the protocol
<support within the unix kernel ... interfaced via sockets. It also includes
>PAD support as a client within user process (there is a call out/in daemon).
<The software requires a DMF-32 on a Vax (there is also a DUP-11 driver). It
>also runs on a Sun.

This sounds exactly the same as the code from the University of British
Columbia.  In what ways does it differ?
-- 
EMAIL:	stephen@comp.lancs.ac.uk	| Post: University of Lancaster,
UUCP:	...!mcvax!ukc!dcl-cs!stephen	|	Department of Computing,
Phone:	+44 524 65201 Ext. 4120		|	Bailrigg, Lancaster, UK.
Project:Alvey ECLIPSE Distribution	|	LA1 4YR

neufeld@mcvax.UUCP (Gerald Neufeld) (03/07/87)

When I mentioned that "We have developed X.25 for 4.2bsd Unix", I should
have said "We, at the University of British Columbia, have ....". The code
I mentioned at that of UBC is one and the same. Sorry for the omission.

tommy@ssds.UUCP (03/20/87)

Path: ssds!tommy
From: tommy@ssds.UUCP (Tommy Phillips)
Newsgroups: mod.protocols
Subject: Sperry ISO Session Protocols -- Help
Message-ID: <119@ssds.UUCP>
Date: 17 Mar 87 22:24:34 GMT
Sender: tommy@ssds.UUCP
Reply-To: tommy@ssds.UUCP (Tommy Phillips)
Distribution: usa
Organization: SSDS, Inc., Littleton, CO
Lines: 14
Keywords: Sperry Unisys ISO-OSI
Summary: Looking for COTS product

Does anyone out there know of any commercial ISO Session Layers running on
Sperry (Unisys now, thanks to Burroughs) 1100/xx mainframes?

We're looking for one, but so far no luck.  PLEASE help if you have even a
HINT of where to look.

If you send me an inquiry and I get any hints I will share the results.
I somehow suspect I'll be the only poor sucker looking for this stuff,
though.

Thanks in advance,
Tommy Phillips
SSDS Inc.
...hao!udenva!ssds!tommy

mrose@rutgers.UUCP.UUCP (03/21/87)

I don't know if this helps but:
-----


			  A N N O U N C E M E N T


The next release of the "ISO Development Environment at NRTC" will be
available on 23 March 1987.  This release is called 

				 ISODE 2.0

This software supports the development of certain kinds of ISO/CCITT/ECMA
protocols and applications.  Here are the details:  

  - ISODE is not proprietary, but it is not in the public domain.  This was
    necessary to include a "hold harmless" clause in the release.  The upshot
    of all this is that anyone can get a copy of the release and do anything
    they want with it, but no one takes any responsibility whatsoever for any
    (mis)use.

  - ISODE runs on native 4.2BSD and SVR2 with an Excelan card.  It
    also runs on a AT&T 3B2 running SVR2 and the WIN TCP/IP package,
    native ROS (the Ridge Operating System), and HP-UX.  (Future
    releases will support VAX/VMS, PC-XENIX, and a variant of PC/IP.)  

  - Current modules include:
	TSAP	- ISO transport service (TP0 on top of TCP)
	SSAP	- ISO session service
	PSAP	- ASN.1 abstract syntax and transfer notation
	PEPY	- ASN.1 to internal datastructure facility
	PSAP2	- ISO presentation service
	AcSAP	- ISO association control service
	RtSAP	- ISO/CCITT reliable transfer service
	RoSAP	- ISO/CCITT/ECMA remote operations service

  - Although the ISODE is not "supported" per se, it does have a
    problem-reporting address, Bug-ISODE@NRTC.NORTHROP.COM.  Bug reports (and
    fixes) are welcome by the way.

  - The discussion group ISODE@NRTC.NORTHROP.COM is used as an open forum on
    ISODE.  Contact ISODE-Request@NRTC.NORTHROP.COM to be added to this list.

  - The primary documentation for this release consists of a User's
    Manual (approx 300 pages) and a set of UNIX manual pages.  The
    sources to the User's Manual are in LaTeX format.  In addition,
    there are a number of notes, papers, and presentations included in
    the documentation set, again in either LaTeX or SLiTeX format.


For more information, contact:  

        Northrop Research and Technology Center
        Attn: Automation Sciences Laboratory (0330/T30)
        One Research Park
        Palos Verdes Peninsula, CA  90274
	USA

        +1-213-544-5393

There are several ways to get a distribution:

    - DARPA/NSF Internet
    If you can FTP to the DARPA/NSF Internet, you can use anonymous FTP
    to louie.udel.edu [10.0.0.96] and retrieve the file portal/isode-2.tar.
    This is a 5MB tar image The file portal/isode-2.tar.Z is the tar
    image after being run through the compress program (approx. 2MB).
    

    - NIFTP
    If you run NIFTP over the public X.25 or over JANET, and are
    registered in the NRS at Salford, you can use NIFTP with username
    guest, and your own name as password, to access UK.AC.UCL.CS to
    retrieve the file <SRC>isode-2.tar.  This is a 5MB tar image The
    file <SRC>isode-2.tar.Z is the tar image after being run through the
    compress program (approx. 2MB).  


    - NORTH AMERICA 
    For mailings in NORTH AMERICA, send a check or invoice for $130 US
    dollars to:  

        Department of Electrical Engineering
	Attn: Prof. David J. Farber
	University of Delaware
	Newark, DE  19716
	USA

        +1-302-451-1163

    The tape will be written in tar format at 1600bpi.  Do not send
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    The tape will be written in tar format at 1600bpi, and returned with
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