[mod.protocols.tcp-ip] Getting machine readable copies of protocol specs

gnu@hoptoad.UUCP.UUCP (07/13/86)

Good luck at this.  The problem is that the national standards
organizations make money by selling copies of these standards.  They
will not let the technical committees just post them to the net or drop
them somewhere for anonymous FTP.  This has been an ongoing problem in
the ANSI C standardization effort.  Happily the IEEE P1003 committee
developing a standard for "portable operating systems" (they can't call
it Unix(TM)) is in favor of electronic media and has been making drafts
and discussion available on the net.

I suspect the difference is because the IEEE is answerable to its
members, while ANSI is answerable to nobody.

PS:  I was a member of the ANSI/ISO APL language standards committee
and it's true that designing a standard by committee is a different job
than building a working system/network/etc.  The APL committee took
pains to seldom engage in "design", but to just adopt the best and most
compatible things from a variety of implementations, inventing new
ideas only when required to make everything consistent.  Looking from
the outside, it seems like the ISO standards folks are building a lot
of paper designs that aren't implemented until after the standard is
approved.  Anyone who ever tried to write a program from its specs,
without revising the specs based on what was learned during
implementation, will recognize the problems in this.

jsq@SALLY.UTEXAS.EDU (John Quarterman) (07/16/86)

Brief elaboration on certain points of John Gilmore's message:

The X3J11 C Committee (they hate being called ANSI C) has a USENET
newsgroup called mod.std.c.  It does not appear to be gatewayed to any
Internet mailing list.  Doubtless the moderator of that newsgroup
<std-c@cbosgd.att.com> could elaborate.  (The mailing list
INFO-C@BRL.ARPA is gatewayed to the different newsgroup net.lang.c.)

The IEEE 1003 Portable Operating System for Computer Environments Committee
indirectly sponsors the USENET newsgroup mod.std.unix (known in the Internet
as the mailing list STD-UNIX@SALLY.UTEXAS.EDU) and many of the committee
members read it.  I'm the moderator and have in the past made on-line
copies of drafts of the standard available by anonymous FTP from sally
in cooperation with the rest of the committee.

The current document is the published Trial Use Standard and is not
available on-line, though future drafts probably will be.  Actually,
according to IEE what is on-line is something that "represents" the draft:
the real draft is the paper copy, which you can also get just by
getting on a paper mailing list.

For details on access to these committees and standards, see recent
articles in mod.std.unix, whose archives may be gotten by anonymous FTP
from sally.utexas.edu.  The current volume is in /pub/mod.std.unix.

PS:  IEEE 1003.1 is working on adoption by ISO.  We'll see how that
affects availability of drafts.

Kelley.pa@XEROX.COM (08/09/86)

The X.400 series of documents done in IFIP WG 6.5 contained integrated
multi-font text and graphics done on a Xerox Star. They were probably
not distributed on the ArpaNet at the time simply because there was no
easy way to convert them to a readable message format.  Furthermore,
there was no other electronic mail list for discussion of the standard
by members of the committee because the necessary gateways between the
members' electronic mail boxes did not exist.  

 -- kirk