[mod.protocols.tcp-ip] talking of and to gateways and bridges

jon@CS.UCL.AC.UK.UUCP (03/21/87)

We at UCL witness an interesting problem. Because it is
regarded as AOK for gateways to talk to each other using unreliable IP,
and gateways don't reassemble, only a minimal amount of info
can get between gateways at any one go.

The internet has got so large now, that when a reasonable percentage
of sites are up, we disappear off the end of routing updates,  and go
unreachable.

Why not get the gateways to reassemble packets destined for them (ie when
they are acting as hosts/end points after all),
I hear you cry? Nope, cos thats just a short term
fix til there are more than (say) 1500 bytes worth of update.

Why not use a transport protocol between IP and EGP/GGP/IGP/RIP etc? Yes,
but which one. Well, there's TCP/RDP/ and who knows how many transaction
protocols out there waiting to pounce. [This may also make your
routing algorithms cleaner.]

Well, use the same one as you use for talking management to your gateway from
your hosts for now, like TCP. Surely it's not beyond the wit of
gatewayfarers to put TCP into their boxes, since half of them
build TCP terminal concentrators already.

Our attitude to manageing MAC Bridges ~like~ the DEC LAN Bridge
100, is to put a separate management network (eg V24 or V35/
RS422 lines or whatever) in the ether/coax/fibre bundle, and use that
to talk telnet/tcp blah into the Bridge. That's no solace to
people with proprietry stuff in the Bridge, but I think it's
the way things will go.

Next years answer is: use ECMA ROS
over REX, because it's gonna be a standard, and I am
a biased European.

Jon

hinden@ccv.bbn.COM (Robert Hinden) (03/23/87)

Jon,

I don't think it OK for gateways to not do IP reassembly.  They should
be able to reassemble datagrams addressed directly to them.  We are
currently working to add this to the Butterfly and LSI-11 gateways.

In principal I agree with you that we should think about using a
transport protocol to carry our routing data.  The problem I see is
that most of our current protocols try very hard to deliver the old
data before the new data.  This is less than optimum for routing
data, where it is important the deliver the new data and
forget about delivering the old data.

I hope we will never get to the point where we send our routing
around by magtape like BITNET.

Bob

jon@CS.UCL.AC.UK.UUCP (04/01/87)

Chris,

ROS stands for Remote OperationS, and REX stands for Remote
EXexcution. They are part of the ECMA (European Computer
Manufacturers Association) input to draft standards work on
distributed computing. REX is a Birrel & Nelson type
'minimum packet' transaction transport protocol, whilst ROS uses
ASN (Abstract Sysntax Notation) as a presentation layer to
to define call/reply/error messages and parameters and
to provide machine independance of call and reply parameter
representation. The ANSA (Advanced Network Systems
Architecture) research group have put a lot of work into their
design. The goal is to provide a system where code for client/server
model interactions may be generated automatically (RPC type
work), but to allow for other types of interaction too.

jon