leeper@mtgzz.UUCP (m.r.leeper) (09/15/85)
>An uninformed opinion is no opinion at all. If you dont >know what you're talking about, please try to do it quietly. One of the regulars on the net has chosen this to be his signiture line. That is fine, he can say what he wants. The line is witty and I am in no way attacking the poster who uses it. I would however like to disagree with the philosophy itself. Anybody's opinion is an opinion. Whether that opinion really reflects reality or not is another matter. It will depend in part on the holder of the opinion and upon his or background. The quoted line as far as I am concerned is one that leads to elitism and stagnation. A person expressing an opinion should make clear where he/she is "coming from" so that the reader can better understand why the opinion is held. I am fascinated to know what newcomers to science fiction think of the field. Any field need fresh insights and one of the hardest things in life is seeing ones own field as others see it. I am not sure I even believe there such a thing as an uninformed opinion unless it is a truly random guess. There are just different degrees and characters of informed-ness. Some are more reliable than others. It takes some courage to express an opinion and risk getting into conflict with someone who disagrees. Not many people are willing to do it. Particularly because there so many people who identify informed opinions with their own. Sure, it never is a bad idea to express your ideas quietly, but also express them clearly. And if it is an opinion on a topic I am interested in, express it in my direction. Mark Leeper ...ihnp4!mtgzz!leeper "This man wishes to be accorded the right of a sponge. HE WISHES TO THINK."
chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) (09/17/85)
In article <1157@mtgzz.UUCP> leeper@mtgzz.UUCP (m.r.leeper) writes: > > >An uninformed opinion is no opinion at all. If you dont > >know what you're talking about, please try to do it quietly. > >One of the regulars on the net has chosen this to be his signiture [sic] >line. m.r. leeper means me.... >That is fine, he can say what he wants. The line is witty and I >am in no way attacking the poster who uses it. Oh, ok. Thanks for clearing that up... I wasn't sure. >I would however like to >disagree with the philosophy itself. Anybody's opinion is an opinion. >Whether that opinion really reflects reality or not is another matter. >It will depend in part on the holder of the opinion and upon his or >background. The quoted line as far as I am concerned is one that >leads to elitism and stagnation. > >A person expressing an opinion should make clear where he/she is >"coming from" so that the reader can better understand why the opinion >is held. I am fascinated to know what newcomers to science fiction >think of the field. Well, just to clear up any possible misinterpretations (and it seems from my mail that I might have just hit a raw nerve or two) I happen to agree wiht mark that there is absolutely nothing wrong with a naive opinion. The new person, without the bias or the background, is the person most likely to find the new direction in the field while the experts are all running around trying to incrementally push out the boundaries. The new and uninformed simply have never learned that something 'can't be done' and seem to succeed at it quite well because of it. My signature line was specifically oriented at the 'expert,' the person with the attitude of knowledge who doesn't bother to find out whether or not the facts back him up. "This is what is right because I believe it -- don't bother me with the facts" sums it up quite well, and that attitude is rampant on the net, as it is in life. I'm than happy to put time into discussion a subject that I know with someone who doesn't, because I keep getting perspectives of things that I never thought of by trying to make them clear to people new to the ideas involved. I'll go out of my way to try to explain to a person WHY I believe it -- it is amazing to think of the number of times I've found myself supporting unsupportable positions when I actually stopped to describe them. What I've given up, though, is tolerating people who believe that "because I said so" is a valid form of argument. Disagreeing with me is wonderful -- with any luck we'll both learn. "Proving" that your disagreement is valid by telling me that you don't agree with me and a dime won't get you a phone call in California anymore. I'm always willing to back my comments up and attempt to justify them, and I no longer see why I should expect anything less from the loyal opposition. If your words are worth reading, folks, they are worth trying (or being willing to try) to justify. >It takes some courage to express an opinion and risk getting into >conflict with someone who disagrees. Not many people are willing to do >it. It is also becoming MORE difficult because of a number of rather loud braggarts who seem to enjoy stomping on any unacceptable opinions before they get out of hand [editorial note: these comments are net-wide, and NOT aimed at sf-lovers specifically, so don't get uptight unless you think I'm pointing a finger at you] >Sure, it never is a bad idea to express your ideas quietly, but also >express them clearly. And if it is an opinion on a topic I am >interested in, express it in my direction. Hear hear! I couldn't agree more. We could use a lot less bickering and a lot more criticism. My comment was just my way of saying that I'm not going to tolerate the bickering any more. I always find time for a discussion with intelligence, and I hope to find more of that by starting to ignore the idiots. Maybe if we ALL ignore the idiots they'll take the hint and leave someday, but I doubt it. And if a normally reasonable person blows it, call them on it, and maybe they'll blow it less often in the future... -- Chuq Von Rospach nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA {decwrl,hplabs,ihnp4}!nsc!chuqui Take time to stop and count the ewoks...
leeper@mtgzz.UUCP (m.r.leeper) (09/26/85)
One final word on this. I think that Chuqui and I are pretty much in agreement. I am less than convinced the signature line is totally consistant with his stated opinions. Mark Leeper ...ihnp4!mtgzz!leeper