clarke@utcsri.UUCP (Jim Clarke) (11/17/85)
In article <797@inset.UUCP> mikeb@inset.UUCP (Mike Banahan) writes: >PROPSITION: Americans, in the large, not only cannot speak English, > they can't even *understand* it. > >SUPPORTING EVIDENCE: ... Received Pronunciation ... normal spoken English > ... occasionally blank >gazes make me realise that I am just not being uderstood at all. Oooh, I just can't stand this any more. Since this little debate may possibly have some relevance to internationalizing computing, I'll make my scream public. Please notice that I am neither American nor British. "Received Pronunciation" -- "received" by whom? That's a normal British term, but most Americans have never heard it. Accent is not such a big deal for them, though if they can't understand an accent they'll stare blankly, all right. "Normal spoken English" is ethnocentric in the same way. "Normal" keyboards have dollars signs and not pounds signs, too. "Normal" means "most people do it this way". It's a loaded word, and I'd have thought a Brit would have been staring down that particular barrel long enough not to try pointing the gun himself any more. The message is: You understand the Americans because you have to. They don't understand you because they don't have to. It hurts that this is a reversal of the old situation, but it's been like that for a long time now, you know. The reason for trying to internationalize (check the OED if you don't like my spelling) computing is that really, in any but the shortest of terms, we all need to understand each other, whether to survive or just to make a profit. That goes not just for the local foibles of major imperialist languages like English and French, but also for other languages like the Scandinavian ones, whose owners haven't tried to force little circles above the vowels on anyone else for a very long time now. The big markets could tell them to get stuffed, but that's not what this newsgroup is about, is it? >Interestingly, Australians have no trouble whatsoever with English English. That's because in Australia they have to put up with a lot of bleeding Poms. They're experts. It's also because status in Australia is often expressed by the ownership or acquisition of a British accent. Americans don't do that. ------ Temporary .signature quote: The folly of the Americans is to think that nothing outside the US really matters. The folly of the Europeans is not to see that the Americans are right. -- Jim Clarke -- Dept. of Computer Science, Univ. of Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4 (416) 978-4058 {allegra,cornell,decvax,ihnp4,linus,utzoo}!utcsri!clarke
peter@graffiti.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (11/23/85)
> >Interestingly, Australians have no trouble whatsoever with English English. Not always true, but largely so. > That's because in Australia they have to put up with a lot of bleeding Poms. > They're experts. It's also because status in Australia is often expressed > by the ownership or acquisition of a British accent. Americans don't do > that. I've gotten more milage out of my inexplicable British accent in the US than I ever did in Australia. Australians are traditionally very egalitarian, to the point where a British accent can be a hindrance. If you ever have the "luck" to hear Bob Hawke talk you'll know what I mean. Mate. -- Name: Peter da Silva Graphic: `-_-' UUCP: ...!shell!{graffiti,baylor}!peter IAEF: ...!kitty!baylor!peter
dbmk1@stc.UUCP (12/04/85)
In article <1648@utcsri.UUCP> clarke@utcsri.UUCP (Jim Clarke) writes: > >------ >Temporary .signature quote: The folly of the Americans is to think that >nothing outside the US really matters. The folly of the Europeans is not >to see that the Americans are right. >-- >Jim Clarke -- Dept. of Computer Science, Univ. of Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4 > (416) 978-4058 And the folly of the Japanese is not seeing that no matter how big the US trade deficit is IBM aren't going to sell their controlling interest in the US. -- Regards Derek !seismo!mcvax!ukc!stc!dbmk1 I've heard that re-incarnation is making a come-back.