topher@cyb-eng.UUCP (Topher Eliot) (10/24/85)
My apologies if this brings up a subject that has just been worn out. I just recently started reading this group, and saw something go by that led me to believe that there had recently been a discussion about Honda brakes developing a vibration. Unfortunately, I didn't save the article I saw, and now our machine has expired all the applicable articles. My wife's 1980 Civic has had it's front rotors replaced twice because of repeated problems with the steering wheel vibrating during normal stops. It isn't dangerous, but it sure irritates her, so I want to fix it once and for all. She doesn't ride her brakes at all (we won't talk about what she does to the clutch), but she does drive a little hard. But not as hard as I do, and my (82) Civic has no problems. If you have a copy of anything that was said about this, or if you know about it from your own knowledge, please *MAIL* me what you have. If no one tells me that this was already discussed, I will post a summary.
khiem@homxb.UUCP (K.HO) (10/30/85)
I notice recently that my Honda PRELUDE '85 also vibrates when brakes are applied at high speeds - about 70 mph or above. I have 16K miles on the car and have not (yet) check the brakes. What would be the problem? I haven't not driven on highway recently in order to determine other factors that might cause this irritation, such as humidity/rainy days/etc. Any other PRELUDE owners out there experience the same problem? Khiem H. homxb!khiem
gvcormack@watmum.UUCP (Gordon V. Cormack) (10/30/85)
> I notice recently that my Honda PRELUDE '85 also > vibrates when brakes are applied at high speeds - > about 70 mph or above. I have 16K miles on the car > and have not (yet) check the brakes. What would be > the problem? I haven't not driven on highway recently > in order to determine other factors that might > cause this irritation, such as humidity/rainy days/etc. > > Any other PRELUDE owners out there experience the same > problem? > > Khiem H. > homxb!khiem I have an 85 Civic Sedan (vented discs) and had vibration on braking starting at 10,000 km. At 19500 km I got them fixed under warranty (only took an hour or so to machine the rotors). The dealer gave me a really hard time, claiming the warping was due to lack of maintenance (not true, in my opinion). Anyway, I am at a loss to determine a cause. The dealer (other than being sure I was the cause) was not able to offer any explanation. The brakes were not overheated, seized, or anything else. I suspect (hope?) that there was some stress in the original casting that caused them to warp spontaneously. I also hope that this spontaneous warping has now ceased. If the warping has not ceased, and this is a common Honda defect, I would like to hear from others so that I can prepare my case when my brakes warp again in a couple of months. Aside: I also have a '76 Honda. The calipers on this car regularly seize due to rust. This wears out the pads instantaneously and has, on occasion scored the rotor quite badly. But the rotor has never warped, and I have never had it machined.
gmc@mhuxa.UUCP (MATULIS) (10/31/85)
> > I notice recently that my Honda PRELUDE '85 also > > vibrates when brakes are applied at high speeds - > > about 70 mph or above. I have 16K miles on the car > > and have not (yet) check the brakes. What would be > > the problem? I haven't not driven on highway recently > > in order to determine other factors that might > > cause this irritation, such as humidity/rainy days/etc. > > > > Any other PRELUDE owners out there experience the same > > problem? > > > > Khiem H. > > homxb!khiem > > I have an 85 Civic Sedan (vented discs) and had vibration on > braking starting at 10,000 km. At 19500 km I got them fixed > under warranty (only took an hour or so to machine the rotors). > The dealer gave me a really hard time, claiming the warping was > due to lack of maintenance (not true, in my opinion). > > Anyway, I am at a loss to determine a cause. The dealer (other > than being sure I was the cause) was not able to offer any explanation. > The brakes were not overheated, seized, or anything else. > I suspect (hope?) that there was some stress in the original casting > that caused them to warp spontaneously. I also hope that this > spontaneous warping has now ceased. > > If the warping has not ceased, and this is a common Honda defect, > I would like to hear from others so that I can prepare my case when > my brakes warp again in a couple of months. > > Aside: I also have a '76 Honda. The calipers on this car regularly > seize due to rust. This wears out the pads instantaneously and has, > on occasion scored the rotor quite badly. But the rotor has never > warped, and I have never had it machined. Currently I own a 1982 SR5 Toyota Corolla and have had the same problem with the brakes. The car now has 75K on it, but the brake problem started when it had around 10-12K. This problem is not restricted to only small cars, as previous to the Corolla I had a 1980 Pontiac Lemans. At around 10K on it the brakes did the same thing. I had the rotors turned and it helped, but within another 5 or 10K I had them turned again since the problem was back again. After asking around, I was told the steel that's used in the rotors is on the borderline and can't take the transitions in heat/cold related to brake use. Softer pads would not create as much heat, would cause less warping, but would wear out quicker. Overall, rotor warping is an annoying problem which usually returns. New rotors might be another solution, but there's no guarantee they won't warp either. One last thing, my wife's car(1978 Gran Prix), mother-in-law(1979 Lemans), brther-in-law(1982 Olds Cutlass), and a friends(1983 Olds 88), all suffer from the same problem. (
res1@whuts.UUCP (STEALEY) (10/31/85)
I have experienced the vibrating steering wheel during stopping on my 80 Accord at around 40,000 miles and now on my 85 Accord at 20,000 miles. The problem was easily repaired by a Honda dealer who was able to turn down the discs ON THE CAR. It was a long, hard search to find one who could do it that way, since most dealers and all tire shops I asked want to remove the discs. Sorry to say the dealer that did it for me is located in Fairmont, WV. The cost including new pads for the front brakes is $65.
jacobson@fluke.UUCP (David Jacobson) (11/02/85)
Regarding warped rotors: > This problem is not restricted to only > small cars, as previous to the Corolla I had a 1980 Pontiac Lemans. At > around 10K on it the brakes did the same thing. I had the rotors turned > and it helped, but within another 5 or 10K I had them turned again since the > problem was back again. After asking around, I was told the steel that's > used in the rotors is on the borderline and can't take the transitions > in heat/cold related to brake use. Softer pads would not create as much ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > heat, would cause less warping, but would wear out quicker. ^^^^ Wait a minute now. The heat produced is exactly determined by the loss in kinetic energy. Energy_realeased_as_heat = .5 m (v1**2-v2**2), where m is the mass of the car, v1 and v2 are initial and final velocities. Now there might be some differences between pads in the distribution of heat between the pad and the rotor. I don't know about that. -- David Jacobson ...ihnp4!uw-beaver!fluke!jacobson
rjs@hpfcla.UUCP (11/04/85)
>I have an 85 Civic Sedan (vented discs) and had vibration on >braking starting at 10,000 km. At 19500 km I got them fixed >under warranty (only took an hour or so to machine the rotors). >Anyway, I am at a loss to determine a cause. The dealer (other >than being sure I was the cause) was not able to offer any explanation. >The brakes were not overheated, seized, or anything else. >I suspect (hope?) that there was some stress in the original casting >that caused them to warp spontaneously. I also hope that this >spontaneous warping has now ceased. Unfortunately, machined rotors are even more likely to warp than ones that have not been machined (since they are thinner). I had an '83 thunderbird turbocoupe (a real piece of trash I might add, but that's another story) that exhibited the pulsing at high(er) speed braking. I opted to live with it for fear that the machined rotors might result in even worse warpage. Bob Schneider ihnp4!hpfcla!hpfcll!rjs
bcbell@inmet.UUCP (11/06/85)
** Brake lines ** Face it, what we're looking at here is a design trade off. Bigger, fatter rotors with more mass would not suffer so much from warpage due to heating and cooling, but they are not available as retrofit items. Certain cars (and certain drivers) have a problem with warped discs. The only solution is to have them machined or replaced, and the problem will occur again. The designers of the car could have used heavier (read: more costly) brake components but that of course would have affected the retail price of the car. There are cars that *never* have this problem. Corvette rotors never warp, but then again, one corvette rotor weighs about as much as a Toyota does. These were, alas, the trade offs the designers of both Corvettes and Toyotas chose to make. Unfortunately, it's hard to tell what's gonna happen here when you buy a car. About the best you can do is check into the repair history of a car before you buy it. R.M. Mottola Cyborg Corp. Newton, MA.
tjsmedley@watmum.UUCP (Trevor J. Smedley) (11/11/85)
In article <77800001@hpfcll.UUCP> rjs@hpfcla.UUCP writes: > >>I have an 85 Civic Sedan (vented discs) and had vibration on >>braking starting at 10,000 km. At 19500 km I got them fixed >>under warranty (only took an hour or so to machine the rotors). > > Unfortunately, machined rotors are even more likely to warp than > ones that have not been machined (since they are thinner). I had > an '83 thunderbird turbocoupe (a real piece of trash I might add, > but that's another story) that exhibited the pulsing at high(er) > speed braking. I opted to live with it for fear that the > machined rotors might result in even worse warpage. > >Bob Schneider >ihnp4!hpfcla!hpfcll!rjs I had the rotors machined on my '74 Toyota Corolla for what was probably about the third time, and they warped again in about a month. I opted to live with it until about seven months later when the vibration had caused enough pad wear that one of the pads slid out of the caliper... on a hill... with some jerk sideways across the lane in front of me... Thank God that the emergency brake cable didn't snap. My advice: make sure that you're brakes work!!! I check the pads about every six months now, and the brake fluid every one or two. I also wouldn't worry about the one machining. I'd even have it done twice if it became necessary. You can check the manual for the minimum acceptable thikness. Once it gets near this buy new ones! I would never again drive a car with brakes that weren't perfect. You don't almost die very many times! BTW, my mother has an '81 Tercel that had the same problem. She had the rotors machined at 20,000km (also under warranty) and has had no problems since. Trevor J. Smedley University of Waterloo {decvax,allegra,ihnp4,clyde,utzoo}!watmum!tjsmedley
btl@mtunf.UUCP (Bernie Lee) (11/21/85)
> > >I have an 85 Civic Sedan (vented discs) and had vibration on > >braking starting at 10,000 km. At 19500 km I got them fixed > >under warranty (only took an hour or so to machine the rotors). > > >Anyway, I am at a loss to determine a cause. The dealer (other > >than being sure I was the cause) was not able to offer any explanation. > >The brakes were not overheated, seized, or anything else. > >I suspect (hope?) that there was some stress in the original casting > >that caused them to warp spontaneously. I also hope that this > >spontaneous warping has now ceased. > > Unfortunately, machined rotors are even more likely to warp than > ones that have not been machined (since they are thinner). I had > an '83 thunderbird turbocoupe (a real piece of trash I might add, > but that's another story) that exhibited the pulsing at high(er) > speed braking. I opted to live with it for fear that the > machined rotors might result in even worse warpage. > > Bob Schneider > ihnp4!hpfcla!hpfcll!rjs *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** Bob: A friend of mine had the same problem with his '80 Honda Accord. He had went thru the channels and got no help, we think it is a design or material problem but not sure. Let me give you a suggestion, I have a '82 Celica and the black out coating on the windshield molding peeled off at 20K miles. Since is out of warranty, I had to call the factory rep out in cal. to come to the dealership and take a look at the problem. I manage to convince him that it was a material problem, and he fixed it free of charge. Well, I went one step further and made him guaranteed the fix and responsible for all my future problems relating to that item. Well the bottom line is that "Get in touch with the factory, they are usually a lot more coorperative than the dealers"