dsm@vaxine.UUCP (Doug Mildram) (11/25/85)
This group is starting to get interesting, when topics are not brand-specific.
Re: pinging. So many things affect preignition (pinging)!
1) Combustion temperature, which is controlled by engine design, the cooling
system, the plug heat range,... More heat = more likely to ping.
2) Advanced engine timing. The pinging explosion reaches the head too soon,
reverberates through the cylinders, and slams the open valves back home.
3) engine octane. Poor octane gas burns too quickly, causing the above.
4) Bad or disconnected EGR valve. A working EGR valve, by recombusting
half-burned gases, lowers combustion temperature by "weakening" the intake
mixture. This allows cars to run nice and hot (efficiently) and not ping when
you boot it. It also signals the end of simple, powerful engines.
5) carbon deposits on the head and the top of the piston GLOW and ignite the
new charge too soon. This is a good reason to clean surfaces during a valve
job. If you have a carb, you can battle this with an "internal steam clean"!
INTERNAL STEAM CLEAN: get a pint or a quart of water in a pourable container.
Take the air cleaner cover off and get a good grip on the throttle. The car
must be hot. Rev the car up to 3 grand or so, and pour water down the barrel
of the carb, fast enough to slow the engine down, but not fast enough to stall
it out. Use the throttle freely to keep it going. If the car stalls and
floods, open the throttle and wait a few. Sounds wild, but I have cured
(temporarily, at least) a few pingers this way.
So you can combat ping in many ways. I'd rather buy premium than retard timing.
ucbvax----allegra---\ Doug Mildram (dsm)
----encore---vaxine--dsm Automatix, Inc.
decvax---/ Billerica, Mass.rls@ihu1g.UUCP (r.l. schieve) (12/03/85)
..... > 5) carbon deposits on the head and the top of the piston GLOW and ignite the > new charge too soon. This is a good reason to clean surfaces during a valve > job. If you have a carb, you can battle this with an "internal steam clean"! > > INTERNAL STEAM CLEAN: get a pint or a quart of water in a pourable container. > Take the air cleaner cover off and get a good grip on the throttle. The car > must be hot. Rev the car up to 3 grand or so, and pour water down the barrel > of the carb, fast enough to slow the engine down, but not fast enough to stall > it out. Use the throttle freely to keep it going. If the car stalls and > floods, open the throttle and wait a few. Sounds wild, but I have cured > (temporarily, at least) a few pingers this way. > ...... Has anyone else tried this??? I have never heard of doing this before and would like more than one opinion before drownding any engine I work on. Rick Schieve ...ihnp4!ihu1g!rls
levy@ttrdc.UUCP (Daniel R. Levy) (12/04/85)
In article <738@ihu1g.UUCP>, rls@ihu1g.UUCP (r.l. schieve) writes: >..... >> 5) carbon deposits on the head and the top of the piston GLOW and ignite the >> new charge too soon. This is a good reason to clean surfaces during a valve >> job. If you have a carb, you can battle this with an "internal steam clean"! >> INTERNAL STEAM CLEAN: get a pint or a quart of water in a pourable container. >> Take the air cleaner cover off and get a good grip on the throttle. The car >> must be hot. Rev the car up to 3 grand or so, and pour water down the barrel >> of the carb, fast enough to slow the engine down, but not fast enough to stall >> it out. Use the throttle freely to keep it going. If the car stalls and >> floods, open the throttle and wait a few. Sounds wild, but I have cured >> (temporarily, at least) a few pingers this way. >> >...... >Has anyone else tried this??? I have never heard of doing this before >and would like more than one opinion before drownding any engine I work >on. > Rick Schieve I'm curious--was distilled or ordinary tap water used? The latter would leave possibly abrasive mineral deposits behind as it flashed into steam. And even then it sounds risky--the cool water hitting hot engine parts (thermal and mechanical shock--and what if a chunk of sparkplug insulator broke off and started to bounce around in the cylinder?). And if it were to kill the engine (with puddles of water in the cylinders) the water might leak off into the crankcase oil as the engine sat. If carbon was knocked loose this way, and the car had a catalytic converter, I surmise it could get clogged this way. Yes, I was dumb enough to try this once myself; there was no apparent harm but it didn't seem to help anything either. I wonder if the original poster looked inside the cylinders after the "steam" treatment to see if the carbon was actually reduced or removed? Actually, I wonder, is there a good way to do this without taking the head off? Maybe a "pinhead" bulb could be lowered into the sparkplug hole and the piston tops viewed directly that way (piston tops seem to gather a good deal of carbon) but I have never tried it. -- ------------------------------- Disclaimer: The views contained herein are | dan levy | yvel nad | my own and are not at all those of my em- | an engihacker @ | ployer or the administrator of any computer | at&t computer systems division | upon which I may hack. | skokie, illinois | -------------------------------- Path: ..!ihnp4!ttrdc!levy
skipt@inuxm.UUCP (M Tourville) (12/04/85)
> > INTERNAL STEAM CLEAN: get a pint or a quart of water in a pourable container. > Has anyone else tried this??? I have never heard of doing this before I have not tried it, but it was recommended to me by an automotive engineer from AMC when my 79 AMC Spirit (6 cyl) started a very loud banging noise. We're talking loud bangs, not pings, and they started suddenly one morning when I started the car. The bangs were so loud I stopped the engine and let the car sit (3 days) while I decided what to do next. Someone suggested that before I tried the water as recommended by AMC, I try a product called Casite which burns the deposits off. It worked well, and made tons of thick brown smoke come from my tailpipe. When the smoke stopped, the problem was gone. CAUTION: lots of smoke-- alert neighbors before using and definitely do not use in garage, even with tailpipe sticking out of garage door.
tonti@ptsfc.UUCP (Guy Tonti) (12/05/85)
In article <306@inuxm.UUCP>, skipt@inuxm.UUCP (M Tourville) writes: > > > INTERNAL STEAM CLEAN: get a pint or a quart of water in a pourable container. > > > Has anyone else tried this??? I have never heard of doing this before > > ... > Someone suggested that before I tried the water as recommended by AMC, > I try a product called Casite which burns the deposits off. It worked > well, and made tons of thick brown smoke come from my tailpipe. When > the smoke stopped, the problem was gone. CAUTION: lots of smoke-- > alert neighbors before using and definitely do not use in garage, even > with tailpipe sticking out of garage door. The next logical question is, Has anybody else had any experiences (good bad, or indifferent) with Casite?
jimv@apollo.uucp (James Vienneau) (12/06/85)
> Discussion of steam cleaning the INSIDE of you're engine.... > Has anyone else tried this??? I have never heard of doing this before > and would like more than one opinion before drownding any engine I work > on. I have used this OLD trick for years. I usually just use a garden hose and set it with about a 1/4" trickle. Then set the engine on fast idle and hold the hose over the carb. It has usually helped with pinging problems and never done any damage. There is also commercial upper cylinder cleaners available. One I used to use alot was called "carbon out" I think. I'm also pretty sure GM sells one. GOOD LUCK
damora@h-sc1.UUCP (jesarielle damora) (12/06/85)
> In article <306@inuxm.UUCP>, skipt@inuxm.UUCP (M Tourville) writes: > > > > INTERNAL STEAM CLEAN: get a pint or a quart of water in a pourable container. > > > > ... > > Someone suggested that before I tried the water as recommended by AMC, > > I try a product called Casite which burns the deposits off. It worked > > well, and made tons of thick brown smoke come from my tailpipe. > > The next logical question is, Has anybody else had any experiences (good > bad, or indifferent) with Casite? I can't speak for Casite or water, but as I recall from buggier days the immortal "Complete Guide to VW Maintenance for the Total Idiot" (or so) recommended pouring a pint of kerosene down the carb barrel. Similar process: keep the flow slow and the revs high and ignore the choking fumes. Like the previous correspondant I wonder: did anyone actually try this? Dan Scherlis care of: damora%h-sc1@harvard.ARPA
ahl@ihlpm.UUCP (A Little) (12/19/85)
> I can't speak for Casite or water, but as I recall from buggier days the > immortal "Complete Guide to VW Maintenance for the Total Idiot" (or so) > recommended pouring a pint of kerosene down the carb barrel. Similar > process: keep the flow slow and the revs high and ignore the choking > fumes. > > Like the previous correspondant I wonder: did anyone actually try this? > > Dan Scherlis > > care of: damora%h-sc1@harvard.ARPA First of all, the "Idiot's Guide" specifies diesel fuel and yes, I did try it. My Karmann Ghia was due for a rebuild anyway, so I did exactly what everyone has been saying - about a pint of diesel down the carb real slow. Boy, I never saw so much smoke, but the engine did seem to run better. By the way, I changed the plugs at the same time (after the process of course) and the old ones were really fouled - I would recommend at least cleaning the plugs after you try this. Also, if your tailpipe is near your carb (i.e. - rear engine car) goggles and bandanna are a good idea. Andy ihnp4!ihlpm!ahl P.S. - I also heard of a guy that blew up the motor in his Camaro by doing this, but I suspect that it was his incompetence and not the process